Too Traditional?

[Jock Scot]

Well OK. With evening dress(black tie) the group in your first picture are the absolute standard, safe and would be the choice of most and a perfect example for anyone to study. However evening dress does as we can see from your other pictures allow for acceptable interpretations and again we need to know in what context(occasion) some of the attire was being worn.To my eyes the pale blue creation is a step too far in the wrong direction, but the others fit the environment well and I have seen many "in the wild" like it, but picture 1 would still be the style that most would follow.

Now for day wear, the tweed, jacket, black brogues(not those dreadful ghillie things), single coloured hose, tattersall shirt, club tie style will get you by almost anywhere and at any time of day or an informal evening do. In honest truth, for most over here, jeans and some sort of shirt seems to be the do-it-all attire for almost everything. Anyway for your mild weathered games a tweed etc outfit will put you in the smart bracket and most these days would tone down their attire a tad if they were not officiating.

Something I have noticed over the years and it is plainly obvious on this website and I pass these words as an amused observation and certainly not as a criticism, is this. Many outhwith Scotland seem to err towards the loud(brash) side of kilt attire at almost a drop of a hat. Now I grant you there are examples in your pictures above of some Scots wearing some pretty loud outfits---- but on the right occasion and should not be regarded as the norm. You chaps seem to be attracted to the bright, glitzy stuff at almost any excuse and this is where you chaps are steering a very fine line between normal attire and costume and I am afraid quite often a costume is the result.

Yes I can see that fresh, enthusiastic, uncluttered, unaware, eyes and minds are attracted away from the "boring" standard dress, but that is really the norm. Take multi coloured hose(diced,argyll,coloured tops) for example, historically correct for sure, worn as evening attire by some today, even more occasionally worn in the day by even fewer Scots, today. Now, there is nothing technically wrong in wearing multi-coloured hose and we are all free to choose , but it does seem that you chaps grasp these rather louder choices far more eagerly than is normal over here.

[Downunder Kilt]

I have been reading this thread and taking in a lot what is being said. Attending Highland Gatherings, going out for dinner or lunch, attending a festive event, I tend to wear a kilt, a tweed jacket and waistcoat, tattersall shirt, usually a ABF tie, standard brogues, self coloured hose and a brass cantled or muskrat sporran (the tweed coat and waistcoat dependant upon weather conditions) This is not really much different if I am wearing trousers, usually corduroy or tailored trousers. (Think Jeeves and Wooster) If it is a hot day/night, I dispense with the jacket and waistcoat, maybe the tie and roll the sleeves of my shirt up.

For a formal event, I wear a regulation doublet, stiff plain fronted shirt with studs and cufflinks, black bowtie, diced hose and buckle shoes and goat hair or sealskin sporran

I have at times worn boots with scrunched down hose, never with a tweed jacket on though.

Now here is the rub, I am in my mid 50’s and I feel comfortable dressing this way and wore a tie then a jacket (School uniform) through all of Primary and High school and the first 8 years of my working life. I consider I was brought up in a era when men wore trousers, business shirts and ties when they went out. When I used to play cricket many moons ago, I used to play in flannels (mighty comfortable they were too)

I don’t consider I look “too traditional” when I attend events in highland attire, but can see how a young lad who has not grown up wearing ties, jackets, waistcoats, may see the whole shebang as too traditional.

I do see people from time to time who, I believe, are a wee bit too traditional, but usually put this down to individual flair. Others I see, I just bite my lip and smile.

[creagdhubh]

creagdhubh ,

Great pic of the leaders of a great clan , The Clan Macpherson !

Very interesting piece of historical info as well regarding the " the three brethern " .

I had a few of my kilted friends over this evening for a small get together ( plus a few ales ) and a few of them brought up the subject of the pic of the Macpherson leaders , so we got on Xmarks and checked it out , all were impressed !

A couple of them asked about the difference between a Clan Chief and a Clan Chieftain as they didn't understand , so I explained it to them . This got me to thinking and the reason for this post .

Given that we have a picture of the Macpherson Clan Chief and the two Chieftains might provide a perfect scenario to help inform some folks of the difference between the titles of Chief and Chieftain .

I understand the difference between the titles , but thought it would not be proper and somewhat impolite for me to explain it here in a post . I thought perhaps this sharing of info would be more appropriate coming from you , as the visual aide to the explanation would be a picture of your Clan leaders not my Clan .

Just thought it might be a good teachable moment for some folks , I am sure many already know this info but some may not .

Best Regards ! Mike

Thank you for your suggestions Mike, they are appreciated indeed. A very nice topic to discuss in my opinion, however, I think I will begin a new thread in a different part of the forum. Keep an eye out for it!

Cheers mate,

[CMcG]

...
Something I have noticed over the years and it is plainly obvious on this website and I pass these words as an amused observation and certainly not as a criticism, is this. Many outhwith Scotland seem to err towards the loud(brash) side of kilt attire at almost a drop of a hat. Now I grant you there are examples in your pictures above of some Scots wearing some pretty loud outfits---- but on the right occasion and should not be regarded as the norm. You chaps seem to be attracted to the bright, glitzy stuff at almost any excuse and this is where you chaps are steering a very fine line between normal attire and costume and I am afraid quite often a costume is the result.

Yes I can see that fresh, enthusiastic, uncluttered, unaware, eyes and minds are attracted away from the "boring" standard dress, but that is really the norm...

That thin line between normal attire and costume can indeed be precarious. I think sometimes there lies another one in between following the retail/rental portrayal of Highland attire and discovering tradition. Or perhaps the attraction of loud, traditional outfits is the sign of new converts (to wearing the kilt) being the most fervent... there is a lot of middle ground between the cookie cutter look and the most idiosyncratic Highland attire, a middle road that sometimes gets ignored in favour of the more extreme traditional looks.

Hopefully this thread has demonstrated that one doesn't have to go to extremes in THCD to still be solidly traditional. In fact, it might be more tasteful if people were to reserve those heavy duty, bold outfits for occasions that warrant them, say when they are meant to be the centre of attention Of course, some people just like those brash, vibrant looks and more power to them. My thought is that one can still be proper, correct, and traditional without being over the top.

...
Now here is the rub, I am in my mid 50’s and I feel comfortable dressing this way and wore a tie then a jacket (School uniform) through all of Primary and High school and the first 8 years of my working life. I consider I was brought up in a era when men wore trousers, business shirts and ties when they went out. When I used to play cricket many moons ago, I used to play in flannels (mighty comfortable they were too)

I don’t consider I look “too traditional” when I attend events in highland attire, but can see how a young lad who has not grown up wearing ties, jackets, waistcoats, may see the whole shebang as too traditional.
...

That is a rub that could contribute to someone both perceiving the whole shebang as too traditional or coming off as too traditional if they tried to emulate it. It sounds like if someone saw you, Downunder Kilt, on a regular non-kilted day and then saw you the next day in kilt day attire, you wouldn't look like you were wearing a costume. A young man who runs around everyday in a plain tee shirt, flip flops, and board shorts and then shows up at an event in a kilt, Balmoral bonnet with clan plant under their crest, brogues, hose with patterned tops, windowpane tweed jacket with waistcoat, club tie, tattersall shirt, full mask sporran and carrying a cromach, might look like they were trying just a wee bit too hard.

Highland attire is tricky though, because it changes one's wardrobe even when one isn't kilted. I was in a rush to get dressed the other day and grabbed a purple shepherd check shirt, tartan scarf (blue-base), and grey herringbone hat, without consideration of colour or pattern. It dawned on me that before I started wearing the kilt more regularly, I would never have owned all those different patterns, let alone mixed them together without a second thought. I think it looked quite smashing, which shows how my tastes have changed... for the better

[creagdhubh]

It dawned on me that before I started wearing the kilt more regularly, I would never have owned all those different patterns, let alone mixed them together without a second thought. I think it looked quite smashing, which shows how my tastes have changed... for the better

Fabulous point and I know exactly what you are talking about!

Cheers,

[MacLowlife]

Somewhere between the lines of the last four or five posts is the "other rule" of keeping your clothes from looking like a costume, I think. Stated simply, that rule is to wear them often enough that you look good, but you also feel comfortable. Think of the 50 mission crush and the Highland Burn treatment for headgear.

We have all seen, at least in movies, the guy who appears dressed to do something- going fishing, playing golf, shooting, whatever- and he is dressed based on an illustration, not on any actual experience. Everything is brand new and a little too complete. And he looks like a bozo.

It is a shame, because some clothes and much equipment really do/ does look better when brand new ( as long as they fit well and aren't too stiff...). But we are so prejudiced against newness because of all that it implies (inexperience, false familiarity, gullibility) that we distrust it. By the time you compound all of that by standing or sitting uncomfortably and stiffly, you have lost the inherent advantage of being well dressed. And that is too traditional, in my opinion.

[CMcG]

...

We have all seen, at least in movies, the guy who appears dressed to do something- going fishing, playing golf, shooting, whatever- and he is dressed based on an illustration, not on any actual experience. Everything is brand new and a little too complete. And he looks like a bozo.
...

That is an excellent point MacLl! It does look somehow too traditional to actually be traditional when I see someone wearing the all-too-complete set of brand new gear, head to toe. This especially true of someone whose mannerisms clearly show that they aren't physically used to wearing the kilt either.

Someone with a family history of kilt wearing is more likely to have not only the experience but also the vintage goods to put together more advanced THCD looks with confidence. One can always buy used items to compensate (or in my case, as a necessity for canny, grad-student thrift ), but time between the pleats and aprons cannot be purchased, only earned.

[Ryan Ross]

I completely agree with all this talk of making sure the kilt doesn't look like a costume... it's a shame, especially at Highland games here, to see so many folks looking... so interesting. To each their own though, I suppose.

Also, I wanted to thank you guys for the commentary on my Confirmation kit. Found it fascinating to hear yor critiques.

The Mass was excelent, by the way, and I managed to avoid dropping or dribbling anything that ought not be. LOL

And I had a much better picture taken, with the same pose. I'm now wondering if my gear looks too... fresh out of the box... to folks. Haha The kilt's only about five years old, the jacket and waistcoat, though freshly altered, are only a year and a half new, sporran from Christmas, etc... I've been kilting regularly for a decade, but I'll admit that a lot of the gear below is pretty new...

[David Thorpe]

Very nice and not the least "costumey" in my humble and admittedly inexperienced opinion, Ryan. Nice setting and shot, too.

[creagdhubh]

Ryan,

I am glad that everything went well with your Confirmation. You look very smart mate!



Cheers,