Too Traditional?

[David Thorpe]

Jock, thanks for posting the photos. Nice to see the face (and attire) behind the writings.

[Nick the DSM]

First, I'd like to say that this as been an interesting discussion about going too far. It's also caused me to observe some ideas and perspectives on highland dress. Bare with me, I'm battling a virus and have been loopy all day.

There's somewhat a difference between personal flair and trying too hard. If you note in the Clan Farquarson thread, you can see personal flair that has been stated by members. Also should note how each of the attendees dress. I don't mean to say "cookie cutter" but it is quite what you expect from Scots to dress for such an occasion. Daywear jackets consisting of tweeds in lovat or earthy tones, not so matchy-matchy colors, and so on. It's smart, and doesn't jump out at you. There's some pics where some are dressing in black argyll's but I think that's besides the point.

So, to try to move on from that; what exactly is personal flair to highland dress? Several have stated that the belt over the waistcoat is styled to Invercauld, which looks fine to me. But as we've been trying to discuss in this thread is being too traditional with highland dress, I might try to ask: When is it too much to add personal style to traditional dress?

Forgetting the kilt, since there could be so many factors of it being a weathered to a bright tartan, let's focus on the accessories. The jacket and sporran is the next obvious to look at. Looking again at the other thread, you can see the pics of clansmen with their daywear. Some have a bit of personality, some don't- not that it is a bad thing. Take a look at #2 with the second to last picture. Four people have the same jacket, but out of the three that more visible you can see that one has a different cuff. Sorta the same conundrum with black argyll isn't it? You can't really do much about changing the jacket's color but you can with buttons and such. Of course, silver would look dreadful on tweed, but what about a different metal? Brass? Maybe another material? Ties and waistcoat can make a difference too. But without trying to sound like a peacock, shouldn't there be some attempt to stand out a bit? Not saying one should go out and wear a neon yellow jacket, but something different. Isn't that what personal flair is attempting to do? I guess adding too much of personal can make it seem like a costume and going too far.

Where does a bit of flair start to become too costumish? I think Tobus has a great kit with the waistcoat and spats, and it's not costume at all. But using him as guinea pig for my rambling, where could he go wrong? If he wore a horsehair sporran, with matching tartan waistcoat and tie, and argyll/diced hose?

I'd like to conclude with an observation from the same thread. Hate to mention it like this, but the American vs. Scots dress. Someone else mentions it, "the sea of lovat tweeds". Seems the Scots have the same thing about people dressing a lot a like, as mentioned before, like the Americans with black jackets. I'm generalizing of course.

Anyways, I'm done with my rambling. I hope I made some sense, I'll try to log on tomorrow and see if I need to clarity anything.

[Bugbear]

.....unless you are a wounded antelope amidst the lions of the Serengeti.

Which makes me wonder… Where does one traditionally cary one's trail snacks or sandwiches and such when on long kilted walks? I would think the sporran might be a little too small.

[Dale Seago]

Which makes me wonder… Where does one traditionally cary one's trail snacks or sandwiches and such when on long kilted walks? I would think the sporran might be a little too small.

Waxed canvas & leather day pack from L.L. Bean:

[JSFMACLJR]

Which makes me wonder… Where does one traditionally cary one's trail snacks or sandwiches and such when on long kilted walks? I would think the sporran might be a little too small.

Perhaps in a rucksack?

[ThistleDown]

A leather or canvas ammunition bag?

[Mickey]

Waxed canvas & leather day pack from L.L. Bean:

There's a pack in this pic? I think I'm hallucinating that there is a blackthorn stick too... but there is something terribly distracting, and what I feel is the most important item...

[Dale Seago]

There's a pack in this pic? I think I'm hallucinating that there is a blackthorn stick too... but there is something terribly distracting, and what I feel is the most important item...

Well, along with your snacks and sandwiches, you need a good restorative elixir too. . .

[Jock Scot]

Which makes me wonder… Where does one traditionally cary one's trail snacks or sandwiches and such when on long kilted walks? I would think the sporran might be a little too small.

Long kilted walks are really not a regular occurrence, "out on the hill" after a stag for example these days, simply because modern clothing has certain advantages over kilt attire. However the "poachers pocket" is a very handy adaptation to ones shooting attire, one on each side, but on the INSIDE, of ones shooting jacket. Very handy, for bits of rope, extra bullets, small packaway waterproof, sandwiches,etc.. My Grand father did have an argyll with small poachers pockets, I remember.

"Poachers pocket"

[Jock Scot]

First, I'd like to say that this as been an interesting discussion about going too far. It's also caused me to observe some ideas and perspectives on highland dress. Bare with me, I'm battling a virus and have been loopy all day.

There's somewhat a difference between personal flair and trying too hard. If you note in the Clan Farquarson thread, you can see personal flair that has been stated by members. Also should note how each of the attendees dress. I don't mean to say "cookie cutter" but it is quite what you expect from Scots to dress for such an occasion. Daywear jackets consisting of tweeds in lovat or earthy tones, not so matchy-matchy colors, and so on. It's smart, and doesn't jump out at you. There's some pics where some are dressing in black argyll's but I think that's besides the point.

So, to try to move on from that; what exactly is personal flair to highland dress? Several have stated that the belt over the waistcoat is styled to Invercauld, which looks fine to me. But as we've been trying to discuss in this thread is being too traditional with highland dress, I might try to ask: When is it too much to add personal style to traditional dress?

Forgetting the kilt, since there could be so many factors of it being a weathered to a bright tartan, let's focus on the accessories. The jacket and sporran is the next obvious to look at. Looking again at the other thread, you can see the pics of clansmen with their daywear. Some have a bit of personality, some don't- not that it is a bad thing. Take a look at #2 with the second to last picture. Four people have the same jacket, but out of the three that more visible you can see that one has a different cuff. Sorta the same conundrum with black argyll isn't it? You can't really do much about changing the jacket's color but you can with buttons and such. Of course, silver would look dreadful on tweed, but what about a different metal? Brass? Maybe another material? Ties and waistcoat can make a difference too. But without trying to sound like a peacock, shouldn't there be some attempt to stand out a bit? Not saying one should go out and wear a neon yellow jacket, but something different. Isn't that what personal flair is attempting to do? I guess adding too much of personal can make it seem like a costume and going too far.

Where does a bit of flair start to become too costumish? I think Tobus has a great kit with the waistcoat and spats, and it's not costume at all. But using him as guinea pig for my rambling, where could he go wrong? If he wore a horsehair sporran, with matching tartan waistcoat and tie, and argyll/diced hose?

I'd like to conclude with an observation from the same thread. Hate to mention it like this, but the American vs. Scots dress. Someone else mentions it, "the sea of lovat tweeds". Seems the Scots have the same thing about people dressing a lot a like, as mentioned before, like the Americans with black jackets. I'm generalizing of course.

Anyways, I'm done with my rambling. I hope I made some sense, I'll try to log on tomorrow and see if I need to clarity anything.

Nick you have observed and asked the 60,000 Dollar question that is almost, but not impossible, to answer and I suppose we have been trying to do just that in this thread.

Personal flair is something that experience helps with, IF you have the eyes to spot the combinations of clothing that others are wearing and adapting by trial and error to your own circumstance. Now you could say pictures on the Internet will do the same thing. Well yes to an extent, BUT, what pictures don't tell you and personal experience does, is the circumstance that a certain bit of clothing is right , or wrong. And we are only touching on the subject if we have got this far.

You have used a picture of Tobus as an example. I hope he does not mind. Yes you are right, a horse hair sporran might tip the balance towards "costume" in some people's eyes. Add diced hose to the equation and the balance is starting to tip towards "costume" rather more. Add a dirk and we are, as far as I am concerned, now well into the realms of costume. Add a fly plaid held on with a large broach at the shoulder and most would agree that we are now off the traditional chart and well into costume. For me, we would have been at the costume stage at the horse hair sporran level, in fact, I would say that the those smart spats were a wee step too far in the circumstaces that they were worn. Had the ground been muddy,or, had we known he was heading for the hill, then they would have been perfect, others may and will differ, but it does illustrate perfectly just how fine that line is. It is all to do with perception and where your experience has come from and that, more often than not, is as hard to grasp as mist blowing in the wind. Does it matter? No not really, but regardless of how unimportant we may think it is, we all have a sneaking wish to cut a dash in our own way.

If all I had to look at for inspiration, was Internet pictures, glossy and often misleading advertising and some eye candy type pictures from the past then I have no doubt at all that I would end up dressing in a costume.Yes, no doubt at all. If on a website such as this one, someone posts a "look at me"picture with my new outfit and members post, as they still do, the "looks good", "you wear it well", "sharp my man" type comments when the outfit is a travesty of what kilt attire ought to look like, then the "costume look" is bound to be perpetuated.

Now how popular would anyone be if they pointed all this out on a "look at me" thread?Not very, I suggest. We should, but out of kindness most that know say nothing( and laugh,cry,scream,or swear into their dram in frustration) and those that don't know, say too much! Such are the problems of the Internet and the advantage of a face to face "quiet word" at a discreet moment that I and many others grew up with, is lost. So it is really not surprising that the subtleties of personal flair are difficult to grasp and explain on the Internet.