Too Traditional?

[creagdhubh]

I'm sorry, creagdhubh, I should have put that in first person.

It has been too easy for me to start to feel like I have a feel for Scots tradition, then find out, or be shown that I really know very little. It seems much of this is ingrained from early on. The polo shirt discussion reminded me of a discussion from a long time back that left me feeling that I had only been accommodated by the traditionalist members in what I would prefer to wear, rather than coming to an understanding of what is viewed to be traditional or even acceptable Highland attire. If you ain't got it, you ain't got it.

No worries, I was simply confused if you were directing your statement towards someone specific or not, thanks for your clarification - it makes perfect sense. I am sure you 'have it,' Bugbear so in that regard...wear what you like and what makes you feel happy!!!

Cheers,

[creagdhubh]

But as examples of traditional kilted attire , they are not.

I agree completely and that is precisely what I was getting at in my post too, Jock. To reiterate, I believe both chaps may have been attending the Culloden Memorial Service (hence the abundance of historical Highland attire - more can be seen in the background) and reopening of the Culloden Visitor's Centre in the summer of 2009. Many Macphersons, amongst other clans whose ancestors actually took part in the battle (the Macphersons arrived too late - long story), were present for the occassion.

Cheers,

[Tobus]

the gentlemen on the right is wearing attire that leans towards the theatrical, with traditional adaptations

Jock, if I may, I'd like to dissect your comment and his attire so that I can better understand where you're coming from. Aside from the old-fashioned waistcoat and the (dreaded) ghillie brogues, what is it about his outfit that leans towards the theatrical? It looks to me like his shirt, tie, Crail jacket, sporran, kilt, hose, and flashes all seem firmly rooted in THCD style. If he were wearing regular brogues and a more modern waistcoat, would there be anything about his attire that strikes you as "too traditional" or theatrical?

As far as context, I believe this is one of the Culloden gatherings, and from other photos I've seen of these events, people are generally dressed in period clothing (though it seems that many take it to the realm of fantasy costume). By comparison, his outfit is pretty tame, though I do agree that it's a bit anachronistic.

[creagdhubh]

Jock, if I may, I'd like to dissect your comment and his attire so that I can better understand where you're coming from. Aside from the old-fashioned waistcoat and the (dreaded) ghillie brogues, what is it about his outfit that leans towards the theatrical? It looks to me like his shirt, tie, Crail jacket, sporran, kilt, hose, and flashes all seem firmly rooted in THCD style. If he were wearing regular brogues and a more modern waistcoat, would there be anything about his attire that strikes you as "too traditional" or theatrical?

A certainly can't speak for Jock and I am sure he will be chiming in shortly, but I see the chap's attire as a bit 'theatrical' too simply because of his 'period looking' waistcoat - it just seems out of place for day attire and does not reflect traditional Highland dress in my opinion. The addition of the black rosettes and red-laced ghillie brogues don't help either, though there is nothing wrong with them when worn in a different context. I believe these are all details best left for evening attire and functions of 'that ilk.' With that being said, I do think his shirt, neck tie, pocket square, jacket, kilt, sporran, hose, flashes, stick and pocket watch are quite alright for day attire - given this particular context where I assume the chap wanted to 'dress up' a bit without going so far as to wearing black tie and silver buttons.

As far as context, I believe this is one of the Culloden gatherings, and from other photos I've seen of these events, people are generally dressed in period clothing (though it seems that many take it to the realm of fantasy costume). By comparison, his outfit is pretty tame, though I do agree that it's a bit anachronistic.

I agree with you and this is what I had previosuly stated above.

Cheers,

[creagdhubh]

post deleted

[Peter Crowe]

It has been too easy for me to start to feel like I have a feel for Scots tradition, then find out, or be shown that I really know very little. It seems much of this is ingrained from early on. The polo shirt discussion reminded me of a discussion from a long time back that left me feeling that I had only been accommodated by the traditionalist members in what I would prefer to wear, rather than coming to an understanding of what is viewed to be traditional or even acceptable Highland attire. If you ain't got it, you ain't got it.

Bugbear,
You must do what works for you my friend, however, a few observations that I would offer are:

1) There are variations of opinion among kilt traditionalists although I think we would all agree on what are acceptable THCD basics outside of formal evening wear. However, when we get to the personal flair part what might be acceptable kilt-wear for one traditionalist may grate on another traditionalist's sensibility.

2) Traditionalists are largely a self-identifying group of individuals none of whom have the right to dictate how anyone dresses. Some because of their knowledge and experience may speak with the authority that confers, and are a useful source of THCD wisdom, but I doubt the people I am thinking of would ever claim their opinions have any more weight than that.

3) The very fact that you are sensitive to the deep and early socialization in THCD that some of us Scots are brought up with gives you an insight many do not have and should be a useful self-check in exploring traditional kilt-wearing well.

4) I consider myself a traditionalist, have worn a kilt since age three (I'm now 45), and was brought up to wear the kilt traditionally in my family. However, I am still curious to learn more because I appreciate that my dad (who also wore the kilt from earliest boyhood) knew a lot but still allowed himself to be persuaded into purchases by Kilt-makers (especially evening-wear in the late 70's) that were a bit naff. I'm still learning and I was born and brought up with kilts in Scotland and lived there until I was 37.

[Jock Scot]

Tobus.

Kyle has said it all for me and I can add little more.

It is all really to do with a split second perception. If I have the need for a second look then inveriably two things have crossed my mind. Firstly, "he" might be wearing something that I might adapt for myself(I never stop looking for those tweaks for my own benefit) or secondly and more likely I look to see WHY the outfit does not work.

If we use that super example picture again, there is a chap in the top right hand corner that catches my eye. Can you tell me why?

[David Thorpe]

White hose? Or the light blue Balmoral with the maroon jacket?

[Jock Scot]

White hose? Or the light blue Balmoral with the maroon jacket?

Try "white hose man". And--------------?

[SlackerDrummer]

If we use that super example picture again, there is a chap in the top right hand corner that catches my eye. Can you tell me why?

Aside from the white hose, he's wearing a dirk. This would appear to be a case of wearing all your doo-dads to make your outfit more "special" and ignoring the fact that it isn't appropriate. You see this a lot at Scottish-themed events in the US. It's like the fellows you see at Burns Suppers wearing their bonnets because they're "Scottish" and ignoring the fact that the wearer is indoors.