Too Traditional?

[Zardoz]

I have seen the same phenomena when I lived in Scotland, and when I was younger the cream hose were pretty ubiquitous for evening wear, at least in the Central-Belt and Borders. The belt with waistcoat thing I associate with guys who weren't brought up with the kilt buying a Kilt and PC inclusive package for evening wear as adults and being sold an evening belt by the vendor, regardless of whether it is necessary or appropriate.

I'm sure this was likely the case. One of them even amused us by showing off his extensive knowlege of all things tartan by basically calling the other out on wearing the Black Watch tartan, which he implied was only for the military. The fellow replied that his name was Grant, and it was the Grant Hunting tartan to him.

[Jack Daw]

In my efforts to be more traditional over the years, I have made an effort to be less concerned about matching. Well, I'm now getting a remark or two each kilted outing about not matching to my growing annoyance. Perhaps for Americans, not being "too traditional" is to avoid not matching.

[JSFMACLJR]

In my efforts to be more traditional over the years, I have made an effort to be less concerned about matching. Well, I'm now getting a remark or two each kilted outing about not matching to my growing annoyance. Perhaps for Americans, not being "too traditional" is to avoid not matching.

Why do you allow yourself to get annoyed? Just ignore them.

[Joshua]

If you like maroon then wear maroon, if you like dark green then wear dark green the colour is no big deal.

But if you like Royal Blue with dicing - DON'T GET IT! I want to remain unique in my clothing choices...

[ForresterModern]

But if you like Royal Blue with dicing - DON'T GET IT! I want to remain unique in my clothing choices...

Although I do wear a royal blue balmoral with dicing, my dicing and toorie are red in contrast to your blues. We can both remain unique I guess. For now at least---you never know when you may start a fashion trend.

[artificer]

In my efforts to be more traditional over the years, I have made an effort to be less concerned about matching. Well, I'm now getting a remark or two each kilted outing about not matching to my growing annoyance. Perhaps for Americans, not being "too traditional" is to avoid not matching.

Why do you allow yourself to get annoyed? Just ignore them.

I had the same thing happen last year at one of the local games by the woman selling admissions. I had on a tattersall shirt (2-tone blue on white) my unofficial X-marks tie (blue and yellow regimental stripe) and my kilt.
Her exact comment was (please read with a very nasal Wisconsin accent) "Boy, you sure do have a lot of patterns on!". I said "yes, thank you, I do" took my ticket and was off.

ith:

[auld argonian]

I had the same thing happen last year at one of the local games by the woman selling admissions. I had on a tattersall shirt (2-tone blue on white) my unofficial X-marks tie (blue and yellow regimental stripe) and my kilt.
Her exact comment was (please read with a very nasal Wisconsin accent) "Boy, you sure do have a lot of patterns on!". I said "yes, thank you, I do" took my ticket and was off.

ith:

Well, it's not like you were mixing PLAIDS or anything like that...that's been a fashion no-no since as long back as I can remember...unless, of course, you're a hipster.

Best

AA

[CMcG]

...For the first time with my time on this website I think the message is actually getting through! I am delighted.

I have said enough now and I will take a back seat on this thread.

Cheers Jock!

This has been a very enlightening discussion and I think the answer to my original question is at hand, though it is not clear cut. Is it possible to be too traditional? Yes and no

Just because one has an extensive knowledge of Highland attire and a wardrobe to match it, one doesn't necessarily have to put every thing they have into each outfit. On the other hand, Highland attire isn't exactly known for its subtlety and some kilt adepts are just more comfortable dressing to the limit of tradition

I say "no, one can't be too traditional" because it is good to try to wear the kilt in as proper, correct, and traditional a way as possible. One can't be too traditional in their desire to stick to THCD.

That is not to say that there is one, single, universally agreed upon way to wear the kilt in any given situation. On the contrary, there is a tremendous range of options and plenty of room for personal flair. I think, perhaps, there is a happy, middle ground that is appropriate for the event, location, crowd, and allows one to simultaneously be part of the "herd," while also standing out as an individual endowed with excellent sartorial sensibilities

I say "yes, one can be too traditional" because there are so many ways to go wrong... but this isn't black or white. If our ideal THCD range is at the centre, imagine a sliding grey scale that can go in several directions.

It hardly needs to be mentioned at this point that blindly following examples from retail/rental catalogues, movie stars, pipe bands, historical portraits, or even sometimes chiefs/noblemen isn't going to work. Avoiding over-dressing by fitting one's attire to the level of formality is also important. From there, things get a bit more complicated.

Personal flair seems fairly key and yet, can also become a slippery slope. Some people have the confidence, wardrobe, and experience to pull off very bold looks using only traditional items. The problem is that the combination might end up being traditional in an overly exaggerated way. Having recourse to pleading individual choice doesn't ensure that an outfit can't become too traditional. If that is what you like, then wear it! But if it borders dangerously on a costume, it isn't necessarily a good idea for everybody

I like MacLowlife's idea of a "budget" for personal flair and it might just be wise for people to consider being thrifty with that budget; perhaps just one or two items of flair, rather than a kitchen sink approach. Furthermore, I think some things are worth more "points" than others i.e. a full mask sporran has a bigger impact than a plain leather one, though both are equally traditional. To this end, sometimes taking a few things away can help balance an outfit and make room for "heavier" accessories.

Function is an important factor too. A cromach just looks silly if one is out to a nice dinner with their partner but is quite germane to a kilted hike. Civilian spats (like Tobus') are too historical for many situations, but are actually rather reasonable to protect one's shoes at a dusty Highland Games.

Above all, for me, this is coming down to a question of aesthetics. Small flourishes of personal flair help to distinguish oneself as an individual, but excessive flamboyance becomes, at best, idiosyncratically too traditional and, at worst, brigadoonery. There is a fundamental difference between trying not to match at all (dogs breakfast) and freely mixing patterns/colours (THCD). A pinch of historical or modern influence (e.g. an older style of sporran or a black shirt) can go a long way; this variety of personal touch can quickly pull a look away from THCD.

Finally, there is the question of circumstance and context. If one is making a public appearance as the bearer of some sort of title, is a groom about to be married, is an official at a Games, or is otherwise meant to be the centre of attention, then they get a special dispensation for full tilt kilt swagger. A Scottish event (Burns Supper, Highland Games, etc) is a better time to dress with a bit of extra Highland verve than on an occasion where one might be the only one in a kilt. THCD isn't meant to be a costume and part of that is, for better or worse, determined by the rest of the people at an event.

[David Thorpe]

An excellent distillation of 29 pages of enlightening discussion. Thank you for asking the question!

[MacLowlife]

Well, said CmcG,

However, I am really hoping to get our number of replies to 300, so I offer the following link to a Facebook page. I do not know if it is possible to steal photos from there or not. My stomach and I were auctioning off tartan-related items, mostly, last night at an outdoor venue. That is a scrimshawed tooth in my right hand and a Loud MacLeod cummerbund in my right. My kilt had begun to slip, but I think camera angle is hiding my knees. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...type=1&theater

I will be the first to admit- I thought the fair isles sweater was pushing things a little, as far as whether it looked good with the BW. Nobody would say it matched, exactly. It is pretty traditional, but I don't think it can redeem the Vasque hiking shoes.

As always, I am indebted to anyone who can help get this picture posted.

m'll


PS- I can get there from this link. I do not know if other FB users can or only those who are friends with the original poster... It is in an album for the St Andrew's Society of Columbia ( SC). FB remains a mystery to me. It's really not much of a picture...