"Balmoral" Doublet Help?

[JWLC]

To briefly get back on topic, I found and bid on a very similar doublet on eBay this morning but didn't win.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....vip=true&rt=nc

At £10.49 it was quite a bargain, and it appears to differ from CMcG's doublet in the lapels. Sadly, I may not have the need for another doublet at this time.

I was under the impression that prior to WWII, today's "black tie" was informal while today's "white tie" was formal. I wouldn't be surprised if sometime in the past 60 years "semiformal" came to be a term used for black tie, though I haven't seen it used as such. The steady degradation of dress codes has really led to a great deal of confusion, particularly since they degrade at different rates in different places.
In this century it would seem that "formal", in the United States, can be interpreted as "no sandals allowed"...

You're right. According to the Black Tie Guide, The terms "informal" and "formal" to refer to 'black tie' and 'white tie' respectively had 'downgraded' throughout the ages such thus black tie had begun to be designated as gradually "semi-formal", and presumably by today, "formal". Personally, I'd prefer to revert to a nomenclature where "semi-formal" refers to "black-tie" and "formal", to "white-tie" but we knwo that's not going to happen.

In UK terms, "dress" means formal in the terms we are talking about above.
As I understand it, in the USA and Canada it appears that "dress" means something rather less formal. For example, a smart shirt used for a funeral or business wear with a suit is often described here by you chaps as a "dress" shirt.
For us over here in the UK, a "dress" shirt is a formal shirt to be worn with formal attire.

Here in Australia, we tend to follow the UK in terms of satorial definitions. Hence a "dress shirt" is (properly) taken to mean one that's worn with formal wear. At least, that is what you'll be offered if you were to ask for one at any tailor or decent menswear outlet.

You are quite right that semi-formal is misleading. I continue to find dress codes confusing because people use such different terminology, without even counting people using one term but meaning something else! Perhaps referring to black tie as semi-formal is archaic because of today's more relaxed social standards of formality

I have read that black tie can be referred to as formal or semi-formal, as well as just evening dress, depending on who you are talking to. White tie can apparently be called formal, full formal, or full dress... there are probably other names too This is further complicated by the fact that black bow ties seem to be considered acceptable for white tie Highland attire! I prefer formal for black tie and full(est) formal for white tie :

Like those who have posted above, I too found semi-formal to be unfortunately one of the most confusingly abused terms in today's society. In Australia, dress tends to err on the side of casual and I've heard/read more than once that "formal" is simply a way of saying "turn up in something dressier than jeans"! I've been to "semi-formal" gatherings where outfits have been a mélange of jeans and shirts to suits to black tie.

I've found that those events that manage to have people best adhere to the dress code are ones that specifically state, say, "black tie" or "lounge suits".

At the end of the day, what matters is context. And if still in doubt, clarify with the host/hostess and suit on -- or kilt on -- as appropriate.

Truthfully, I don't really need white tie attire at this point in my life, but depending on which university I end up at once I get my PhD, I hear that it might become more necessary for some official functions and ceremonies. It doesn't hurt to be prepared and at least I know I can also wear my new doublet for black tie too. Besides, it leads to interesting discussions on Xmarks

CMcG, are there actually many universities in North America where white tie is called for at functions? At Oxbridge, TCD and the other older British universities, that is the case, and elsewhere in Europe -- especially Scandinavia.

I shouldn't think that this particular doublet would look too dressy at a black tie function. Particularly if the majority -- if kilted -- may invariably be dressed in PCs and Argylls and may not know better.

[CMcG]

...
CMcG, are there actually many universities in North America where white tie is called for at functions? At Oxbridge, TCD and the other older British universities, that is the case, and elsewhere in Europe -- especially Scandinavia.

I shouldn't think that this particular doublet would look too dressy at a black tie function. Particularly if the majority -- if kilted -- may invariably be dressed in PCs and Argylls and may not know better.

There probably aren't many (any?) universities in Canada or the US that have white tie functions, but given the vagaries of the academic job market, I could very well end up outside North America. There is also always the possibility that I could get invited to a full formal ball or other white tie event. If it ever happens, I'll be ready, and until then I'll just enjoy trying to figure out some of the intricacies involved

For now, I'm more likely to wear my new doublet for black tie events, so I'm glad you agree it wouldn't be too formal. If I vary the accessories as I suggested in an earlier post, it should indeed fit in with the PCs and dress Argylls, though it will also still stand out a bit.

[Downunder Kilt]

CMcG I think your new jacket will be ideal for black or white tie events. For black tie either buttoned or unbuttoned would suit the occasion, and done up for white tie of course. As for your ghillie brogues with buckles and short laces, I would think it comes into the realm of you adding your own finesse to the outfit. In fact I am attending a black tie murder mystery dinner (set in the 1920's) aboard a train, this friday. I am intending to wear ghillies based upon your buckle attachment design. Good buy and wear the new jacket in good health

[CMcG]

CMcG I think your new jacket will be ideal for black or white tie events. For black tie either buttoned or unbuttoned would suit the occasion, and done up for white tie of course. As for your ghillie brogues with buckles and short laces, I would think it comes into the realm of you adding your own finesse to the outfit. In fact I am attending a black tie murder mystery dinner (set in the 1920's) aboard a train, this friday. I am intending to wear ghillies based upon your buckle attachment design. Good buy and wear the new jacket in good health

Downunder, I recall you mentioning that you had put some buckles on your ghillie brogues. Do let us know how it works out and make sure to post pics, eh?

[creagdhubh]

Downunder, I recall you mentioning that you had put some buckles on your ghillie brogues. Do let us know how it works out and make sure to post pics, eh?

Man, I need to get on that too! I need to add red laces as well (with much credit and thanks to P/M's Gordy Walker and John D. Burgess, naturally)

Cheers,

[MacSpadger]

Looking at the replies here, I can now only add that I must inhabit a world that's maybe just a little bit more formal than most of you.
Yes, I do attend regimental functions, and I take the point that formal has different meaning to all of us. I was taught how to pipe and how to dress by forces members and that's where the heart of my formal dress code lies. Failing inspection is no' much fun. If a jacket can button, it should be buttoned, was a rule of thumb while "on duty". I even have old programmes that give instruction that after supper you can "louse a button", (archaic spelling). Maybe it's a piper's thing, an unbuttoned jacket can cause the bag to slip around under your arm.

Of course, when I'm not formal my missus says I look like Compo from Last Of The Summer Wine

(That's Compo, by the way, no' me. By the way, he has his jacket buttoned.).

Red laces.............John Burgess got his through Jimmy Stewart, ex-Gordon Highlanders. Jimmy once told me he had bought a bunch at a market stall in Peterborough, of all places. Jimmy wears them too, and has some fetching blue/black striped ones for an alternative. I've not asked where Gordon gets his, but he used to get all his kit from Piob Mhor of Blairgowrie. It might be worth a try.

[saxandpipes]

...Maybe it's a piper's thing, an unbuttoned jacket can cause the bag to slip around under your arm.

...

Indeed, you may be right- but I think that's why my (band) Argyll has a chain link:



Cheers,

Michael

[Glen]

Yes, I do attend regimental functions, and I take the point that formal has different meaning to all of us.

As a young and smaller subaltern, I was taught to do the buttons up, but now those same style of mess uniforms don't even come with button holes...