Too Traditional?

[creagdhubh]

Last night my youngest child, (who is now 12 and old enough), enlisted in the Army Cadet Corps. As the platoons lined up for inspection, it reminded me of a few things that may well have a cultural bearing. My father, uncles, grandfathers, etc, all served in kilted Scottish regiments and went through rigorous inspection and detail on how to dress. Without me knowing it this was probably passed on to me, (or at least some attempt made to pass it on, how much actually sunk in is another matter).
When I was 9 I joined the local Boy's Brigade as did many of the local kids. This was run by ex-Scots Guards and ex-Gordon Highlanders and we had the same high scrutiny inspections as I saw my kid go through last night. These guys had joined the police on leaving the forces, so also piped in the Aberdeen City Police Pipe Band, (now Grampian Police).

A lot of the local pipe bands in my area were run by ex-Gordon Highlanders and wore the Gordon tartan. These ex-Gordons gave them the same detail of inspection at band practice as you would get in the Army Cadets or Boy's Brigade. After all, they were wearing the tartan of the Gordons and proper respect must be accorded. Everything gets looked at, pocket alignment, pleats, sporran height and placement, how your headgear is positioned, even how your laces are tied. To the north west of me pipe bands and local youth organisations were run by ex-Seaforths, to the south, Black Watch, etc.

A noticable occurence for me was that whenever I attended Highland Games or such like, there would always be lots of soldiers or ex-soldiers in attendance. Even out of military uniform, they would be dressed very smartly, tweed jackets, balmorals perched "just so", day sporrans. You just didn't want to be in the same place as these guys if you were dressed improperly. There were even some CSM types that would say things to incorrectly dressed civilians, but a withering glare was probably more effective. Their wives were more vocally fierce about people "looking a state".
So, even if you have not been in the army or been part of a youth organisation that wears the kilt, certainly for actual Scottish people of my age, (I'm 51), there was enough people around to tell you how to dress correctly while growing up. This has the knock on effect that there is also a style of turn-out that you attempt to emulate. I guess that's tradition.
There still are a large number of pipe bands run by ex-Army pipe majors, and you will still find a fairly sizeable number of soldiers and ex soldiers competing at Highland Games. Eyes will always be on you.
This does not mean that personal flair is stifled. Gordon Walker is a prime example.

Even civilian volunteers south of the border who attend the London Scottish on a Thursday night will undergo inspection from this fellow.

So, in conclusion, there may well be a fair bit of cultural pressure on dressing "traditionally" for native born Scots. It certainly is plain to all that there is a marked difference between those who "dress-up" and those who dress the part.

Well stated, MacSpadger! I especially like your concluding remarks and for getting the thread back on topic.

Best wishes my friend,

[Father Bill]

OK AA and FB here is the poster that was in my dorm room.

Yeah, I had that one. That's my wife a couple of weeks ago!

[CMcG]

...
Sandy MacLean (JSFMACLJR) and I at the 2011 Kentucky Scottish Weekend. Are we 'overdressed' for the context of an outdoor 'Scottish' event (games/gathering of sorts)? Perhaps 'too traditional?'


Opinions and constructive criticism are most welcome, but I fear I am running out of photos...must consult my albums at home and upload more! Ha-ha!

I somehow missed this question among the other posts To me, you both look well turned out for a daytime Scottish event, though I can't say from this picture how the formality level of your attire suited the rest of the crowd. I don't have any criticism to offer but perhaps I can make a few pertinent compare/contrast type comments.

Kyle, you are looking very smart, colour coordinated without getting matchy, and I dare say picture perfect. You've got all the details just so, and have put many traditional items together, without over doing it. That being said, I think you have also turned your outfit up to "maximum traditional" by including things like the full mask sporran, plant badge, and cromach on top of all the other more standard pieces of kit. A passerby might wonder if you aren't some sort of an official at the event or even a foreign dignitary. That's not necessarily a bad thing and seems to suit the way you have told us you approach Highland attire.

JSFMACLJR on the other hand, looks a bit more relaxed and comfortable, though no less traditional. This is normal considering he has way more years between pleats and apron than Kyle (or I) While the contrasting colours and patterns of his outfit are quite visually pungent, he has also judiciously toned other things down and/or left bits of kit out: plain leather sporran, hose the same colour as flashes, no waistcoat or belt, no plant badge. Also, his bonnet looks like it has moulded quite nicely to his head.

Anyone else care to offer some comments on this example?

[creagdhubh]

Cheers Colin! Thanks for your response, mate!

Looking back, I actually dont care for the Lovat blue hose with this particular outfit, as I feel they are too 'matchy' with the Lovat blue in the tweed jacket and waistcoat I am wearing. The hose mentioned, and all of the others from 'Gaelic Themes' I used to own, are now long gone - sold to fellow 'Xmarker's!' Presently, I tend to wear hose that contrast a bit more, or have diced cuffs with one or two different colours (think House of Cheviot Lewis and Chessboard hose and Almost Unwearoutable).

This photo of Sandy and I was taken in May of 2011, and I feel that since then, I have gradually been more akin to 'taking risks' and not being so methodical about what I am wearing (with much credit going to my fellow 'Xmarkers' as a source of inspiration and innovative ideas). Nowadays, I simply pick things out that strike my fancy and not worry so much about it. I have become more relaxed with my attire at certain occassions (context), yet still wearing what I like to wear (personal flair) when it comes to the more traditional style of Highland dress.

As I may have eluded to in an earlier post, I do not always have the cromach at hand, nor have a sprig of white heather or boxwood tucked behind my clan badge. I do wear simple, leather day wear sporrans too, but lately I have been wearing my full-mask animal sporrans, because I just like them and can't bear to leave my wee beastie(s) at home! Ha-ha!




Kind regards,

[SlackerDrummer]

This photo of Sandy and I was taken in May of 2011, and I feel that since then, I have gradually been more akin to 'taking risks' and not being so methodical about what I am wearing (with much credit going to my fellow 'Xmarkers' as a source of inspiration and innovative ideas). Nowadays, I simply pick things out that strike my fancy and not worry so much about it. I have become more relaxed with my attire at certain occassions (context), yet still wearing what I like to wear (personal flair) when it comes to the more traditional style of Highland dress.

...Here's another photo from the day.

Trading in those Lovat blue hose for the ancient blue ones, you're really shaking things up. (Sorry, I couldn't resist since both pictures were in this same thread.)

[creagdhubh]

Trading in those Lovat blue hose for the ancient blue ones, you're really shaking things up. (Sorry, I couldn't resist since both pictures were in this same thread.)

Well, that's the colour I decided to go with that day, Kenneth. I think the main reason for wearing the ancient blue hose was simply because they were relatively new and hadn't been worn before. Perhaps Picasso's Blue Period had influenced me subconsciously - I had gone to an exhibit of his at the St. Louis Art Museum the day prior...ha-ha!


The Old Guitarist, Oil on Panel, Pablo Piccaso, 1903

Cheers,

[SlackerDrummer]

Well, that's the colour I decided to go with that day! I think the main reason for wearing the ancient blue hose was simply because they were relatively new, well, let's just say they hadn't been worn before. Perhaps Picasso's blue period had influenced me subconsciously - I had gone to an exhibit of his at the St. Louis Art Museum the day prior...ha-ha!

I was just funnin' ya of course. Not to mention, if the goal is to reach in the sock drawer and grab the first thing you reach, you're invariably going to match some of the time.

[creagdhubh]

I was just funnin' ya of course. Not to mention, if the goal is to reach in the sock drawer and grab the first thing you reach, you're invariably going to match some of the time.

I know mate! Ha-ha! Yes, you are indeed correct and there's just something about wearing fresh, new kilt hose...

[Tobus]

Anyone else care to offer some comments on this example?

You know, one of your comments actually turned on a light bulb in my head. You said that JSFMACLJR (Sandy) looked more relaxed, even though he's every bit as traditional. And it occurs to me that you're absolutely right in the literal sense. He simply looks more relaxed. When I browse through Kyle's photos, he always appears to be 'striking a pose' or standing stiffly. And I'm not picking on you, Kyle, as I tend to do that too when I'm wearing traditional Highland attire! And heck, I know you're a Marine, so it may be difficult for you not to assume a more rigid stance. But in the end, I think it can make a world of difference in the overall visual effect. Two gentlemen, dressed to the same level of smartness and tradition, may not come across to the casual viewer as being dressed comparably, because one looks relaxed and natural whilst the other looks like he knows he's being watched.

In essence, I think being relaxed, comfortable, and looking like you were born to wear these clothes is just as important as what you wear.

[creagdhubh]

You know, one of your comments actually turned on a light bulb in my head. You said that JSFMACLJR (Sandy) looked more relaxed, even though he's every bit as traditional. And it occurs to me that you're absolutely right in the literal sense. He simply looks more relaxed. When I browse through Kyle's photos, he always appears to be 'striking a pose' or standing stiffly. And I'm not picking on you, Kyle, as I tend to do that too when I'm wearing traditional Highland attire! And heck, I know you're a Marine, so it may be difficult for you not to assume a more rigid stance. But in the end, I think it can make a world of difference in the overall visual effect. Two gentlemen, dressed to the same level of smartness and tradition, may not come across to the casual viewer as being dressed comparably, because one looks relaxed and natural whilst the other looks like he knows he's being watched.

In essence, I think being relaxed, comfortable, and looking like you were born to wear these clothes is just as important as what you wear.

Fantastic points, Tobus and I couldn't agree more.

Here are several of photos in which I had no idea I was being photographed, any difference (I know this is really not the central point/basis of what you are saying, Tobus)? Ha-ha, probably not...it's hard to shake the Marine mentality sometimes!







Cheers,