Too Traditional?

[CMcG]

Nearly there!Come on CMcG you post No. 400!
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EDIT: Apologies, Colin. Jock snuck in a post while I was writing. I thought I was 399!

Ah well, I missed it! Regardless, I'm very happy to see people continuing to make such thoughtful contributions to this very fine discussion

[davidlpope]

Here is where you lose me. Even the fellow who wears a suit and tie to work and worship, and a tie, slacks and blazer out to dinner is not likely to wear a suit and tie to the county fair on Saturday. They probably would have 100 years ago, but it is very doubtful today. In that regard, much of THCD is an affectation (I certainly don't mean that in a derogatory way). It doesn't matter what you wear in other circumstances (e.g. work, worship); what is relevant is how you would dress as an analog to when you are kilted.

I guess I'm having a hard time coming up with an analog. A Highland Games is a Highland Games, not a county fair. Traditionally, men wear kilts, shirts, ties, tweed jackets, kilts, hose, and leather lace-up shoes to Highland Games. When it's too hot for that I take off my jacket and tie and roll up my shirt sleeves.

There is quite a continuum between the puffy shirt and current THCD. Suggesting that those are the only two alternatives seems a little disingenuous to me.

It was meant to be. My point is that American sensibilities, when "interpreting" a Scottish cultural tradition, often lead to heinous results.

[Ryan Ross]

That shirt, however, would probably be considered "underwear" by THCD standards

Hahahaha... That is precisely what I was thinking, when I put together that initial post: "A traditional sort could have theoretically worn this gear 'back in the day', but it would have ammounted to wearing one's skivvies on the outside."

But yes, thanks for the input, folks. What I was most interested in was feeling out the prevalent thoughts on whether or not a single item, in this case the shirt (granted, an IMPORTANT item), would be enough to make a whole outfit either "traditional" or not.

Fascinating thread, this.

[SlackerDrummer]

I guess I'm having a hard time coming up with an analog. A Highland Games is a Highland Games, not a county fair. Traditionally, men wear kilts, shirts, ties, tweed jackets, kilts, hose, and leather lace-up shoes to Highland Games. When it's too hot for that I take off my jacket and tie and roll up my shirt sleeves.

Any daytime, weekend-long festival should suffice as an analog, but that's neither here nor there. I agree with you that there is a traditional standard of dress when kilted at a Highland Games; I'm merely pointing out that it has not changed in a century while the rest of what we think of as appropriate attire for any number of other occasions has (70 years ago, men wore suits to college (American) football games). For me, this has implications on when and where it is appropriate to wear the kilt and leads me to the conclusion that what might not be "too traditional" at a Highland Games may simply be inappropriate on other occasions because "traditional" is not relative to that situation (to tie it all in to the original question). Others will - and do - differ in their opinion.

It was meant to be. My point is that American sensibilities, when "interpreting" a Scottish cultural tradition, often lead to heinous results.

Too right.

[Tobus]

For me, this has implications on when and where it is appropriate to wear the kilt and leads me to the conclusion that what might not be "too traditional" at a Highland Games may simply be inappropriate on other occasions because "traditional" is not relative to that situation (to tie it all in to the original question).

Well stated. It's back to the context issue. Any "tradition" is context-based anyway. Even the Scots don't wear tweeds and tattersals all the time, as Jock Scot pointed out.

The only bone I would pick with what you said (and it's a small bone) is the word "inappropriate". Wearing a tweed jacket, tie, etc., to an American county fair might be out-of-context, but probably wouldn't reach the level of inappropriate. Of course, maybe it depends on the county...

[MacLowlife]

Any daytime, weekend-long festival should suffice as an analog, but that's neither here nor there. I agree with you that there is a traditional standard of dress when kilted at a Highland Games; I'm merely pointing out that it has not changed in a century while the rest of what we think of as appropriate attire for any number of other occasions has (70 years ago, men wore suits to college (American) football games). For me, this has implications on when and where it is appropriate to wear the kilt and leads me to the conclusion that what might not be "too traditional" at a Highland Games may simply be inappropriate on other occasions because "traditional" is not relative to that situation (to tie it all in to the original question). Others will - and do - differ in their opinion.



Too right.

TWEN, I mean, um THIRTY YEARS AGO, I wore a suit to college football games. We all did in those days, and only in part to conceal the flasks.
You just did.

[JSFMACLJR]

TWEN, I mean, um THIRTY YEARS AGO, I wore a suit to college football games. We all did in those days, and only in part to conceal the flasks.
You just did.

At my alma mater, The University of the South, in Sewanee, Tennessee, men still do wear coats and ties to football games.

[SlackerDrummer]

TWEN, I mean, um THIRTY YEARS AGO, I wore a suit to college football games. We all did in those days, and only in part to conceal the flasks.
You just did.

At my alma mater, The University of the South, in Sewanee, Tennessee, men still do wear coats and ties to football games.

Okay, you guys have reminded me that I did, in fact, wear at least a sport coat to the football games at my then-girlfriend's small private school. But while you did see them, particularly among fraternity members, at the games of the larger universities, they were definitely in the minority. Even at Sewanee, some men wear coats and ties today. 70 years ago, most men wore coats and ties.

[opositive]

context--a lot of what seems to be considered traditional now a days is based on old pics and paintings of victorian gentry (who mostly look great). so--did common folk who were actually herding sheep with their cromachs or farmers, etc ever wear kilts when working? did pre victorian regular folk work in kilts while not wearing tweed jackets, sgain dubhs...?

ww1 infantry kilted soldiers in trenches also looked a bit different from the military parading pipe bands.

so--would ryan ross really look that odd for a guy in a kilt at some time before the victorains started taking pictures and posing for paintings?

[Downunder Kilt]

I guess I'm having a hard time coming up with an analog. A Highland Games is a Highland Games, not a county fair. Traditionally, men wear kilts, shirts, ties, tweed jackets, kilts, hose, and leather lace-up shoes to Highland Games. When it's too hot for that I take off my jacket and tie and roll up my shirt sleeves.

Exactly what I was trying to express when Kyle put himself up in traditional attire (earlier in the thread) and stated that he had removed his jacket later in the day due the hotter weather. There are places that I attend where every male still wears a jacket, tie and shirt (eg the members section at the Melbourne Cricket Club to watch the football or cricket). Granted that many are 40+ years of age. You see men that are very comfortable wearing such attire and those that aren't. An overwhelmingly majority of those that aren't, are of a younger age, which I put down to a generational thing whereby they have been brought up in blue jeans, T shirts, tracksuits etc.