Too Traditional?

[Tobus]

It's funny - I see this conversation sort of leading us back to the long discussion we had a while back on what "tradition" really means. It occurs to me that if one is strictly going to parrot what Scots do today, that's not following tradition. It's following fashion trends (even if native Scots do not think of it as such!). Tradition would encompass what they did yesterday as well. Wearing a goat-hair sporran may not be something the majority of Highland Scots have done for, say, 80 years, but that doesn't mean that wearing one today is non-traditional. It just means it's out of fashion. But of course, by many it could be seen as "too traditional", so there's that.

[MacLowlife]

AN IDEA

Here is a little exercise. I do not mean for the analogy to be carried too far, but let's take any given dozen comments in this thread, or elsewhere on X Marks. Where the word kilt appears, substitute "short pants". For instance, short pants are often worn by boys too young for long trousers, just as kilts have been some times and places. Women wear a version of short pants. So do some athletes. So do soldiers in certain places. So ( allegedly) do Bermudians and patrician Americans, sometimes with neckties and jackets.

It is possible to be very dressed up in shorts and it is certainly possible to wear shorts as a part of a uniform. Some people wear uniform shorts out of their original context. I know some people who make a point of wearing shorts all of the time, despite occasional freezing weather. But most of us- shorts lovers or merely shorts owners- will occasionally bump into a situation that calls for coverage of the knees and calves.

I do not wish to offend anyone, or to belittle the Scots National Dress, but what we are discussing is a garment, not the Shroud of Turin. You wear it to cover your backside. Some may love its practicality, some its apparent impracticality. Many want to call attention to themselves in it, while some want simply to fit in. The more closely your own experience follows that of middle aged Highland Scots, the easier it is for you to follow their tradition and intuit the THCD way. For anyone else, there is this thread. But there is always common sense.

I notice in this past week's posts a little tension between two groups. I think of them as the "How shall we F Off, Master?" group, who really do want to understand and make it just right and the "C'mon lad, it's clothing, not religion" group, who say do it right, but let's get on to the important stuff. So much is absorbed slowly, rather than learned overnight.

Back in the beginning, I think that is what C McG's teacher was talking about.

Let's say I learned the lion dance from a guy with a limp. If I do the lion dance with a limp, am I being traditional? Some might say I am mocking my teacher, though I do not mean to. Others might not even notice.

[SlackerDrummer]

Huh, now that's interesting. I hadn't heard that particular tradition before. So the cromach and Balmoral are only appropriate when worn with jacket and tie? I would have thought that these were more practical items that wouldn't be dependent on the level of dress.

I can't speak to the practicality of the stick, but in theory at least if a jacket is impractical, so is a wool hat.

[Jock Scot]

The stick(cromach), wool hat and the tweed jacket. These three items are the perfect examples of the trouble in explaining the context of them,that Rex, and I are talking about. I say this without rancour, but taking these things out of Scotland obviously makes matters tricky, right from the start!

In the rural Highlands of Scotland these three items in one form or another, are common, almost every day things for some , so common is the sight that no one notices them. The cromach whether you have sheep ,or not, is a useful aid in the environment that they exist in and the tweed jacket was until quite recently was everyday wear for nearly everyone and tweed is still in everyday use on estates in Scotland in particular and though not so common generally in the rest of Scotland these days. Oh the wool hat! It can be quite cold here and it does rain a lot!

So it would be quite natural for officials and spectators of any Highland games in Scotland to wear tweed and carry a cromach and they both have a use. I quite accept that it does appear to be a "uniform" for the Clan Chief(he also needs a bonnet to put his feathers in!) and his male entourage, games officials,etc., at these affairs and I suppose in a way they are "uniform". But, I think we would all expect these people to put on their best outfit for the event though and the end result is the kilt, bonnet, tweed jacket, brogues and cromach. That is what happens in Scotland.

Now where I start to have trouble explaining to you non Scots that just because some Scots wear Highland attire at an event and there are hundreds of pictures on this website and probably thousands more on the Internet "proving" this, that or the other version of Highland dress is appropriate at this, that, or the other event, but not necessarily so. So YOU say, "there you go Jock the Chief of Clan MacOnion is wearing his full regalia to get petrol from the garage(filling station) so that is what I am going to wear too and I (YOU) can find lots of other pictures to prove my point." I(Jock) cannot help but agree that the picture is of the Chief of Clan MacOnion in his attire at the filling station, but I doubt that we will agree on the conclusions that you have drawn from the picture.

What Jock is saying and Rex and others too is pictures do not tell the whole story and this is what many of you chaps out there fail to understand. It is the context and finer points of the whole day's event that you chaps are failing to grasp. I think, waaaaay back in this thread, I described a chap in full pipe band attire buying a box of matches and looking out of context, I then described him walking through town and still looking out of context, I then described him leading the local pipe band for the rest of the day where, lo and behold he is in context.

Context, and the consequent degree (appropriateness) of one's atire, is seemingly as hard to grasp as it is to explain, but we will get there! Remember that chap in the picture of a group of people at Culloden? The one that caught my eye? After a long while and quite a bit of prompting from me many of you came up with many of the things that caught my eye---not all, if I recall correctly--------.Was this smartly dressed fellow wrong in wearing what he did?To my eyes, yes, but is the world going to stop spinning? Anyway, you chaps thought it was not too far out! Me? I think it was 5 things that caught my eye in a split second! THIS is where and why explaining context is so difficult and equally I can quite see that it is so difficult for you chaps to see and understand. I don't say this unkindly, but if you don't even see it, because you don't understand what you are looking at, when it is there, in front of your eyes then how--------------------?

[guardsman]

I think jock is correct about context. I was told once you can never over dress, which I suppose you cant but it is eccentric and theatrical to over do things. For me ,I love it casual , kilt and woolly jumper when walking the dog. Which is fine 90% of the time , However ,as jock points out, if I was meeting the chief of clan McOnion (great) I would far better dressed dependent on formality required. I look at pictures of various Clan Chiefs , they are all very smart but also very casual (and correct ). Not a fly plaid in site. Right away the the dog now, best wishes all.

[Tobus]

Jock, I get what you're saying. And as always, I'm glad to have your input (as well as the input of other native Scots) to help those of us over here on this side of the pond understand what we can't see in everyday life.

But here's the problem. For those of us who want to wear the kilt correctly, in the Highland tradition, photos are all we can go by, unless someone is willing to describe to us what the photos don't show. In other words, it's all well and good to tell us "that's not right" or "we don't do that". But it's only helpful up to a certain point. What would be more helpful would be to tell us what is worn instead, since there are apparently no photos to help us understand.

And in that spirit, I would like to get some further clarification on just exactly what a typical Highland Scot would wear on his head, if he had chosen to put on the kilt, but wasn't dressing up in 'full kit'. Several here have stated that when the jacket and tie are removed, the bonnet and cromach are set aside. OK, that was news to me, but what do they wear then? Baseball caps? Surely not flat caps?! Or is it some sort of unwritten rule that hats are not worn unless jackets are worn?

I guess the thing that seems difficult for me to comprehend (keeping in mind that I'm thousands of miles away) is why wearing a bonnet is in any way related to wearing a jacket. I can understand that if it's too warm for a jacket, a wool head cover might not be necessary. But still, I would assume that Scots wear hats for other reasons besides warmth. So if a Balmoral bonnet is not worn without a jacket, then what is?

[creagdhubh]

Well SD, there are many who believe that any non-Scot wearing a traditional kilt outside of the Highlands constitutes an act of affectation. So who, and and at what level of dress, do you propose makes that distinction? Perhaps only those things made in Seattle are not examples of affectation outside the Highlands?

I suspect that some people are not comfortable wearing a style of dress that includes things reminiscent of their father's style of dress, ie neck ties and jackets. As was pointed out, those are not specific to traditional Highland attire but were, not too long ago, common day wear here in the states as well. I cant help but think that some people's current disdain for them, accept in the most formal of settings, is some kind of lingering rebellion born of the dismal 1960s .

I think that judging and labeling other people's manner of wearing Highland attire (as I may have just done ) is not all that productive. If you like wearing ties and jackets as day wear, cool, if you prefer to wear t shirts and flip flips, go for it. I certainly wear what I think is clothing appropriate to the setting (hiking attire while hiking etc). I must say though that there seems to be a feeling here, from the more casual of our members, that those of us who prefer a tie and jacket as daywear are, as you said affectational (not sure of that conjugation) and those who prefer a more casual style are somehow more real. I'm not sure where that feeling comes from. I truly don't experience it coming from the other side, but perhaps that's because I tend to come from that perspective.

Regards,
Brooke

Very well said, Brooke.

Best wishes,

[creagdhubh]

It's funny - I see this conversation sort of leading us back to the long discussion we had a while back on what "tradition" really means. It occurs to me that if one is strictly going to parrot what Scots do today, that's not following tradition. It's following fashion trends (even if native Scots do not think of it as such!). Tradition would encompass what they did yesterday as well. Wearing a goat-hair sporran may not be something the majority of Highland Scots have done for, say, 80 years, but that doesn't mean that wearing one today is non-traditional. It just means it's out of fashion. But of course, by many it could be seen as "too traditional", so there's that.

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[creagdhubh]

At my alma mater, The University of the South, in Sewanee, Tennessee, men still do wear coats and ties to football games.

It's far better than seeing people in undershirts and pajamas during the daytime!

[creagdhubh]

I think you hit on something there that is at the heart of some of the earlier discussions Rex, that being, what constitutes a special occasion? For some of us, Highland games are a "special occasion" where we take the opportunity to put on our best, weather appropriate, Highland attire and enjoy the day as an opportunity to show respect and pride in our heritage. Others see Highland games as just that, a sporting event, no different than a football game. Neither are wrong, but motivations for each choice are sometimes misunderstood by the other. The first being perceived as being phony or putting on airs, the other as being sloppy and disrespectful of tradition. For me, going out to a nice dinner, a professional theater performance or ballet are examples of special occasions, and I dress accordingly. For others, those are just things to do and they arrive dressed as such. I guess, as usual, it just comes down to perspective and preference.

Regards,
Brooke

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