Too Traditional?

[SlackerDrummer]

Sandy is not an exception, Kyle. After a lifetime he knows exactly what to do and how to do it. I don't see him as attempting to "pull off" a bonnet-wearing look; he is just himself, comfortable in his clothing. He is not seeking advice because it is second-nature to him and if he is wearing a bonnet without a jacket he's not breaking some sort of rule.

I think this is just another example of the old adage, "you have to know the rules to break the rules." Of course, the real meaning behind that is that you have to have internalized the rules to successfully pull off breaking them with good effect. And, as with most circumstances or situations to which that adage might apply, it is usually obvious to those in the know as to whether or not you have pulled it off (and probably not to you).

[creagdhubh]

I think this is just another example of the old adage, "you have to know the rules to break the rules." Of course, the real meaning behind that is that you have to have internalized the rules to successfully pull off breaking them with good effect. And, as with most circumstances or situations to which that adage might apply, it is usually obvious to those in the know as to whether or not you have pulled it off (and probably not to you).

Good point.

[ThistleDown]

Many thanks to Jock and Rex for their replies.


Well, I'm not sure what the answer is. What I think it comes down to (for those of us across the water) is this: if we emulate photos we see from the Highlands, we are often told that we are being costumish or "too traditional" because those photos don't represent the everyday way of wearing a kilt. We are told that we just don't get it. OK, fine, I can understand that. But if that's true, then surely someone, somewhere, has taken photos of less showy (i.e. more "normal-yet-traditional") ways of wearing it. Jock Scot has shown us some examples in the past, and has given us at least a cursory description above.

I think perhaps we need more of that, if we American chaps are to truly understand the fine line that apparently exists between traditional and costumish.

I think you have come up with the answer, Tobus, both in what you have said here, and -- of equal importance -- what you did not. You did not attempt to "defend" your way of wearing Highland dress in response to my critique. You simply accepted it. That takes a great deal of self-understanding and a pretty high level of desire to learn. Lots of nods from me.

For a long time Jock, in particular, and others of us, too, have been trying to explain the difference between how Highland dress is worn in the Highlands, and how it is worn elsewhere. I'm pretty sure we will continue to do that; the problem for us is that new folk joining the discussion means that we have often to start all over. On the surface that is frustrating at best and quite annoying when the one who has asked for comment then assumes a definsive posture citing singular examples or historical photos as proof. We get over that and move on with the help of serious knowledge-seekers such as you.

I won't speak for Jock and his family, but in mine we don't carry a camera about with us to take photos of our daily activities and those of our friends. That means that there are very few kilted ones we can post here for you. The newly-taken photos on XMarks are almost always of non-Scots in Highland dress and, as I said earlier, it would be petty of us (and quite tiresome for you) if we were to make too many comments of them. We have, mind you, and I for one recall the wrath of Thor coming down on several occasions (the wearing of flat caps with the kilt springs immediately to mind).

Within the rules of the forum (Rule 4, for example) it is difficult to find and post photos of others.

But we will certainly continue to talk and answer questions as best we can.

[David Thorpe]

I can't speak to the practicality of the stick, but in theory at least if a jacket is impractical, so is a wool hat.

I would rather suffer unsolicited criticism for wearing traditional headgear without a jacket under the summer sun than suffer blisters on my barren pate. ith:

[Bugbear]

I would rather suffer unsolicited criticism for wearing traditional headgear without a jacket under the summer sun than suffer blisters on my barren pate. ith:

You are taking the kilt out of it's native environment, so sometimes "traditional" isn't going to be possible. I think the issue that rubs the wrong way, might be then calling the adaptation "traditional." It comes across as telling the Scots how they should dress or something along that line, as best as I can tell.

There's a fine line being walked, though, because the Highland Games and Scottish events over here in the US are also out of their native environment and sometimes open to the "unwashed American public."

[Tobus]

You are taking the kilt out of it's native environment, so sometimes "traditional" isn't going to be possible.

Another fine point, Bugbear. For those of us in warmer (OK, hotter!) climes, sometimes it's even a stretch to wear wool kilts at all. Much less tweed jackets and all the rest. So in many cases, the American adaptations of Highland dress will, at best, be a nod towards traditional, while remaining firmly on the side of practical.

A wool bonnet isn't something I'd ever consider wearing purely for warmth, since it doesn't offer much protection for the ears or neck. It may have marginal value as a barrier against rain, but not much. I figured it was worn more for the sake of tradition and simply to cover one's head outdoors, rather than being considered purely a cold-weather hat. So that's why I'm a little surprised to hear Rex say that they usually take it off when it's warm enough not to need a jacket. Here in South Texas where I live, it's foolishness to stand outside all day without at least something on one's head. Heh, I made that mistake in early April at our local Highland Games, and got a nice sunburn on my forehead and the crown of my head as punishment (and I do have a full head of hair). So this is probably one of those areas where I would probably have to decide to hover in the general vicinity of tradition, knowing that I might make a native Highlander gasp in horror as I continue to wear my Balmoral without a jacket. I'm sure if any native Highlanders were here, they'd make the same practical decision. The important thing, though, is that I would be at least trying to follow THCD, rather than being "too practical" and wearing a Stetson.

[Jock Scot]

Another fine point, Bugbear. For those of us in warmer (OK, hotter!) climes, sometimes it's even a stretch to wear wool kilts at all. Much less tweed jackets and all the rest. So in many cases, the American adaptations of Highland dress will, at best, be a nod towards traditional, while remaining firmly on the side of practical.

A wool bonnet isn't something I'd ever consider wearing purely for warmth, since it doesn't offer much protection for the ears or neck. It may have marginal value as a barrier against rain, but not much. I figured it was worn more for the sake of tradition and simply to cover one's head outdoors, rather than being considered purely a cold-weather hat. So that's why I'm a little surprised to hear Rex say that they usually take it off when it's warm enough not to need a jacket. Here in South Texas where I live, it's foolishness to stand outside all day without at least something on one's head. Heh, I made that mistake in early April at our local Highland Games, and got a nice sunburn on my forehead and the crown of my head as punishment (and I do have a full head of hair). So this is probably one of those areas where I would probably have to decide to hover in the general vicinity of tradition, knowing that I might make a native Highlander gasp in horror as I continue to wear my Balmoral without a jacket. I'm sure if any native Highlanders were here, they'd make the same practical decision. The important thing, though, is that I would be at least trying to follow THCD, rather than being "too practical" and wearing a Stetson.

In the circumstance above the THCD has the answer. Common sense!

A panama seems to be the option, if F4T2 is anything to go by.

[Tobus]

I think you have come up with the answer, Tobus, both in what you have said here, and -- of equal importance -- what you did not. You did not attempt to "defend" your way of wearing Highland dress in response to my critique. You simply accepted it. That takes a great deal of self-understanding and a pretty high level of desire to learn. Lots of nods from me.

In fairness, I would be foolish to "defend" my way of wearing Highland dress when I'm still trying to grasp whether I'm doing it correctly. My goal is always to learn.

That said, however, there comes a point where I would knowingly break from such purity of tradition if it makes sense to do so.

[MacLowlife]

The Uncertainty Principle at Work?

Of all of the many things I am not qualified to discuss, Quantum Mechanics rates pretty high, but I believe it was Werner "Mac" Heisenberg who suggested that the act of observing a phenomenon also influenced that phenomenon. Not too long ago, we were discussing MacLeay's HIGHLANDERS and the general idea that they posed in their best finery.

It would be a good and joyful thing indeed, to see random "candid" photographs of contemporary Scots wearing Traditional Civilian Highland Dress, perhaps with helpful captions explaining just what activity had caused them to don the kilt and footnotes to parse and delineate the finer aspects. But I am afraid such photos would still be influenced by the presence of the camera and the implication that something important was being captured. Such is the documentarian's burden. If you doubt me, give a glance to TAKE IVY, a Japanese photo book about the way men dressed at Eastern US colleges in the early 1960s.

The problem is this: If you were to manage some of those candid shots ( and not run afoul of Rule 4) what would you have? They might not be particularly eye-catching or picturesque, or necessarily interesting to a general audience. They would make for pretty poor travel posters or shortbread tin illustrations. They would be useful for our discussion, but maybe not for much else.

A couple of analogies, if you will: Whenever you see a movie set in the 1950s era United States, (but actually filmed later) you are likely to see certain cars- often a turquoise 57 Bel Air or Thunderbird. Those cars are popular remnants of that time, but chances are, your ancestors who were living in the US at the time drove a cream colored Dodge or a brown Oldsmobile- or a navy blue Buick. But collectors ( and movie art directors) do not get excited much about those average cars. And the shortbread tin folk do not get excited about their kilted equivalent.

Another angle: Let's say you were taken to the zoo. All alone in one cage is a crocodile- he has a torn lip, three broken teeth, and is missing much of his tail. Can you be certain that all crocodiles in the wild look like him? Chances are, you will end up with a more representative idea about, say, porcupines or raccoons if the zoo shows you an exhibit with a half dozen or more animals. That is, you are better able to judge and discern what is typical of the McOnions and what is merely typical of Alisdair McOnion. But even so, you are limited to what the McOnions look like when they are placed in a cage.

I like seeing pictures of Dukes and Chiefs. I like seeing historical wedding photos and christenings of both children and boats. I like seeing parades and reels. Like most tourists, I did not go to enough private parties when I visited Scotland to form an opinion of how the average Scot dresses for a bite of dinner with the in-laws or Erotic Scrabble with the New People Down the street. I have to depend on my friends here for that knowledge.

Thanks to the diligence and generosity of many people, this thread shows a little more about THCD- and tells even more than it shows. With any luck, CMcG will be doing the

FIVE HUNDREDTH POST -LION DANCE very soon.

[David Thorpe]

It comes across as telling the Scots how they should dress or something along that line, as best as I can tell.

Certainly not my intention. I would not presume to tell anyone how they should dress, Scot or otherwise.