breast pockets on Argyll jacket

**Bjarg Jonsson** · 18th June 12, 02:05 PM

Tobus wrote:

"On another note, I couldn't help but notice the fellow sitting in front. The aprons on his kilt are reversed from what we normally see on kilts. The inner apron seems to be hanging next to his right leg, not the left. I wonder if he had it reversed due to wear (as I've heard is sometimes done to squeeze more life out of an old kilt), or if it was originally made that way."

I had a friend from Scotland that told me that his grandfather, who was a regular kiltwearer, engaged in manual labor while kilted. His grandfather's kilt was made in such a manner that when he got to work he changed the top apron to the bottom exposing the front of the bottom apron to any stains. When he got through working he reversed the aprons so he could walk home with the top apron clean.

Cheers,

Bjarg Jonsson

**jfraser** · 18th June 12, 03:02 PM

Depending on the date, I would suggest that this could be a civilian adaptation of a Highland Regiment Officers jacket. A design similar to this is still used in 2A, 2B and 2C service dress today in the Highland Regiment. I stand to be corrected here, but this style of jacket was in use by the Higland Regiments (Officers) before the first World War.

**OC Richard** · 19th June 12, 04:46 AM

Originally Posted by Tobus

The jacket seems to button up a lot higher in the front than most Argyll jackets we see today as well.

Like ladies' hemlines going up and down, and the lapels on men's suit coats, and men's neckties, getting wider and narrower, how high a jacket buttoned was just a matter of the current style of the time.

The high-buttoning jackets were the style from the mid-19th century up through the early decades of the 20th. All the jackets seen in The Highlanders of Scotland are like that, as well as in vintage photos:

around 1860:

in 1939:

and more...

BTW that's clearly a civilian jacket, nothing military about it.

**creagdhubh** · 19th June 12, 08:31 AM

Wow! I really like the 1939 photo, what a nice close-up! And of course, you gents know I'm rather partial to animal-mask sporrans.

Thanks Richard,

**SlackerDrummer** · 19th June 12, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by creagdhubh

Wow! I really like the 1939 photo, what a nice close-up! And of course, you gents know I'm rather partial to animal-mask sporrans.

Thanks Richard,

You have 12 minutes, Kyle: HERE.

**creagdhubh** · 19th June 12, 08:47 AM

Originally Posted by SlackerDrummer

You have 12 minutes, Kyle: HERE.

My wife's already on it, she already has been for over a week

!!!!!!!

**creagdhubh** · 19th June 12, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by SlackerDrummer

You have 12 minutes, Kyle: HERE.

Awww crap!!! My wife lost it! She did everything she could, but the beautiful wildcat sporran got away from us...I mean, it was down to the last few seconds of bidding! It went for almost $500 (at least I made the chap, or whoever won, pay more - is that mean?!). We were 'neck and neck' with one other bidder and were in the lead for many days, dang it!!!!!!!!!! We were 'snipping' too at the end, CRAP!!!! I'm so bummed. I have been looking for this type of animal-mask sporran for so long. Oh well, perhaps another one will come along later in my life? I seriously doubt it will be as nice as this one was. Ugh, I feel sick.

**SlackerDrummer** · 19th June 12, 09:05 AM

Originally Posted by creagdhubh

Awww crap!!! My wife lost it! She did everything she could, but the beautiful wildcat sporran got away from us...I mean, it was down to the last few seconds of bidding! It went for almost $500 (at least I made the chap, or whoever won, pay more - is that mean?!). We were 'neck and neck' with one other bidder and were in the lead for many days, dang it!!!!!!!!!! We were 'snipping' too at the end, CRAP!!!! I'm so bummed. I have been looking for this type of animal-mask sporran for so long. Oh well, perhaps another one will come along later in my life? I seriously doubt it will be as nice as this one was. Ugh, I feel sick.

Tough break, man.

**creagdhubh** · 19th June 12, 09:18 AM

Thanks, Kenneth. It is what it is! The sporran was going to be a gift for my 31st birthday coming up on June 25. Oh well. I'm quite sure my wife will gift me something just as nice - she knows what I like!

Cheers,

**jfraser** · 21st June 12, 09:54 PM

I would suggest that this could be a civilian adaptation of a Highland Regiment Officers jacket. A design similar to this is still used in 2A, 2B and 2C service dress today in the Highland Regiment.

I have attached 3 photo’s which have already been posted on this site.
My first photo is a cropped enlargement of the first photo posted of this thread.
The next photo’s show the cut and style associated with the Highland Military service dress 2.

BTW that's clearly a civilian jacket, nothing military about it.

Take away the belts and have the jacket more loosely fitting, what do you have? Note: more senior officers could also have cuffs.

In the first photo we have double breast pockets with flaps on them. Where else would you see them at but on military or service jacket such as police, fireman etc. This by the way was copied from the military. Although, double breasted pockets with flaps are in common use in today’s outdoor clothing and in the past I have seen the odd tweed jacket with them but even they were loosely based on the military officer’s blouse.

The cut of the jacket seems to allow for all the buttons to be fastened up the middle and to a height similar to an HR Officer’s jacket. It is hard to prove, but there is no evidence of a waistcoat/vest under the jacket. Yet, it has been the fashion to have waistcoat/vest as photos in the second posting show.

The second photo’s posted, as far as I can make out, don’t have double breasted pocket with flaps and they certainly would have difficulty buttoning closed up the middle and are more in keeping with civilian jackets at the time rather than as in photo one.

So what could possible have been adapted from the HR jacket; double breasted pockets with flaps, the ability of the jacket to be buttoned up the middle, the tie as it is worn, the cut and style of the jacket in general and the sporran cut. No waistcoat/vest.

What has not been adapted from the HR jacket? Possible the lack of shoulder straps, the material the jacket is made from, buttons and cuffs. Although as stated previously high ranking officers wore cuffs.

Apart from the above, why don’t I have any problem accepting this jacket as an adaption on the HR military jacket? Well everybody else in the photo seems to be dressed as a member of a Highland Regiment, albeit with a specific function, so why would the person in the middle not make some effort to conform to that image.

All this of course lends itself to further discussion, such as how much influence has Highland Regiments had on civilian dress and vice versa? This in itself could lead an interesting research paper.