Military Box-Pleats: some questions for the rabble.

**Spartan Tartan** · 19th June 12, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome

I think we need to be very careful here to keep in mind that what may be "commonly understood" by active members of this forum may not, in fact, be "commonly understood" by the kilt wearing and kilt making world at large.

This is a very perfect and clear example. On this forum, when one says "box pleated kilt" one immediately imagines a four yard variety, whereas one must say "military box pleated kilt" if one means the eight yard variety.

However, if one were to approach just about any classically trained kiltmaker in Scotland and ask about a "box pleated kilt" they will immediately assume you mean the modern-day military style kilt. Most will never have heard of a "four yard box pleated kilt."

My head is spinning trying to get through all this. I hope not to take too many steps backward on this, but would like offer the following anecdote:

Of the 5 kilted people that I PERSONALLY KNOW locally (there are others here in this forum from Oklahoma, but not that I "know" and see regularly)...I am the only person that does NOT own a box-pleat kilt. In fact, of us 5, I am also the only member of XMTS. So this next part is particularly interesting to me after reading this thread...ALL OF THEM have 6 yard box-pleats. NONE of them know what type of pleats they have, just that their kilts are "6 yards or so..."

I could tell they were box pleats immediately, but I'll be damned if I never once thought, "hmmmm...I wonder if that is a military box pleat or 'regular' box pleat?" But I can assure you they ARE box pleats. I even showed them the difference between their box pleats and my knife pleats (which is a 6-yarder as well)...we all learned something then killed off a few drinks

I would love to get a picture of their kilts. I might just do that next time we are together...

Okay...back to your regular Box-pleat v. MBP debate!

A very interesting and informative debate as well...

**Riverkilt** · 19th June 12, 08:46 PM

Umm. of the 74 kilts I've owned and the two on order NONE are box pleated. Nor do I have any interest in acquiring one. Just me.

**M. A. C. Newsome** · 20th June 12, 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by Spartan Tartan

Of the 5 kilted people that I PERSONALLY KNOW locally (there are others here in this forum from Oklahoma, but not that I "know" and see regularly)...I am the only person that does NOT own a box-pleat kilt. In fact, of us 5, I am also the only member of XMTS. So this next part is particularly interesting to me after reading this thread...ALL OF THEM have 6 yard box-pleats. NONE of them know what type of pleats they have, just that their kilts are "6 yards or so..."

I could tell they were box pleats immediately, but I'll be damned if I never once thought, "hmmmm...I wonder if that is a military box pleat or 'regular' box pleat?" But I can assure you they ARE box pleats. I even showed them the difference between their box pleats and my knife pleats (which is a 6-yarder as well)...we all learned something then killed off a few drinks

Well, that's certainly interesting that you would know five people all of whom have box pleated kilts, not a one of them knowing what a box pleated kilt is. I know a few other kilt makers that would make six yard box pleated kilts upon request for a client, but I don't know of any kilt maker who would do so without specifically being asked. No kilt maker would surprise a client by making them a box pleated kilt without some indication that their client wanted it that way.

If it were one person I would think maybe he acquired it second hand and did not know the pleating style, but five? I assume all the kilts came from the same maker. It would certainly be interesting to find out.

I wonder if these people belong to (or once belonged to) a pipe band, a reenactment or living history group, or some other such association where the kilt was part of the uniform. I often encounter pipers, for example, that have no clue how their kilt is pleated, or even what tartan it is. All they know is "this is the band kilt" and its what they got handed to them. Maybe something similar happened with your friends? Who knows! :-)

**Paul Henry** · 20th June 12, 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by Spartan Tartan

My head is spinning trying to get through all this. I hope not to take too many steps backward on this, but would like offer the following anecdote:

Of the 5 kilted people that I PERSONALLY KNOW locally (there are others here in this forum from Oklahoma, but not that I "know" and see regularly)...I am the only person that does NOT own a box-pleat kilt. In fact, of us 5, I am also the only member of XMTS. So this next part is particularly interesting to me after reading this thread...ALL OF THEM have 6 yard box-pleats. NONE of them know what type of pleats they have, just that their kilts are "6 yards or so..."

I could tell they were box pleats immediately, but I'll be damned if I never once thought, "hmmmm...I wonder if that is a military box pleat or 'regular' box pleat?" But I can assure you they ARE box pleats. I even showed them the difference between their box pleats and my knife pleats (which is a 6-yarder as well)...we all learned something then killed off a few drinks

I would love to get a picture of their kilts. I might just do that next time we are together...

Okay...back to your regular Box-pleat v. MBP debate!

A very interesting and informative debate as well...

I'm curious as well as Matt, were these traditional tartan kilts or perhaps a more modern style in denim or canvas? or perhaps as Matt suggests some sort of a bulk purchase from a band?

I know that many kilts wearers over here ( in the UK) wouldn't actually know what a box pleated kilt was,although to be honest I suspect they would just have ordered a kilt from the maker, and in the UK it would almost certainly be a knife pleat, it would be unusual to be offered more of a choice except of sett or stripe.
In a few weeks I will be going to a Highland Games in Harpenden,and as usual I'll be on the look out for kilts and different styles , but apart from the Pipe bands and the Gay Gordons Dance group I don't imagine I will be seeing many others,but I will certainly looking out for them, and of course photos will follow!

**LitTrog** · 20th June 12, 06:03 AM

Maybe they were actually 4-yarders but assumed 6, having heard that "all" kilts contain 6-7 yards...

Not calling your friends dumdums, just thinking about the assumptions I made before joining the rabble and absorbing some more info. If they don't know the type of pleating, they may also not know the yardage.

**RAF** · 20th June 12, 06:08 AM

Originally Posted by LitTrog

Maybe they were actually 4-yarders but assumed 6, having heard that "all" kilts contain 6-7 yards...

Not calling your friends dumdums, just thinking about the assumptions I made before joining the rabble and absorbing some more info. If they don't know the type of pleating, they may also not know the yardage.

My thoughts also.

**Jock Scot** · 20th June 12, 06:10 AM

If the two "Food For Thought" threads are anything to go by, even many kilted Scots know little about pleats, pleating to the sett etc., so it is hardly surprising the rest of the kilted world are un-knowing too.

**creagdhubh** · 20th June 12, 06:22 AM

Originally Posted by LitTrog

Maybe they were actually 4-yarders but assumed 6, having heard that "all" kilts contain 6-7 yards...

Not calling your friends dumdums, just thinking about the assumptions I made before joining the rabble and absorbing some more info. If they don't know the type of pleating, they may also not know the yardage.

***

**Tobus** · 20th June 12, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

If the two "Food For Thought" threads are anything to go by, even many kilted Scots know little about pleats, pleating to the sett etc., so it is hardly surprising the rest of the kilted world are un-knowing too.

This is probably true if they acquired the kilts through a band, or as used items, or via some other means where they weren't involved in the initial ordering from the maker. But here in the States, ordering a kilt from a kiltmaker is apparently different than the process used in Scotland. Every vendor I know here will require you to choose the options on pleating, yardage, tartan, size, etc. I have a hard time believing that someone here could buy a box-pleated kilt from a kiltmaker and not know what it is. That would be the equivalent of ordering a sandwich and just letting the sandwich maker decide what type of sandwich it will be. It just isn't done here!

**Jock Scot** · 20th June 12, 06:40 AM

Actually Tobus, it seems that many Scots will have visited a kilt maker to order a kilt in "their" tartan and will have no idea that there is a choice and the kilt maker will just assume that an "8" yard, knife pleated, pleated to the sett kilt in 16 oz tartan is required. Something to remember when ordering a kilt from Scotland.