who "owns" a tartan?

[Spartan Tartan]

I see a theme (sometimes repeating) of people asking about wearing tartans to which they feel they have no actual right. I don’t want to rehash all those comments, but suffice it to say, it usually comes down to respect. Inevitably someone always comments that the inquiring person ought to just ask the Clan Chief for permission. This poses a new twist on the question for me and one that I hope can generate some discussion.

Who actually OWNS a tartan? Asked another way, I have understood that Clan Chiefs “endorse” a tartan to be worn by their family/clan. And can endorse additional tartans pretty much as their exclusive right as the Chief. Is this paramount to ownership?

As an example, I have noted that very few family/clan tartans are actually restricted. So, where does the “ownership” come from? If I were to decide that I wanted to use Auld Scotland for my family and thereby declare it as my family’s tartan, would that somehow mean that others were not allowed to wear it without my permission? Taken a bit further, if I were to have several friends and our families mutually supported each other and so we all agreed to wear Auld Scotland to show our mutual support for each other, does that make us a clan? And if so, does that finally preclude others from wearing Auld Scotland without our newly formed clan’s permission? Or by another example, what if I too wanted to use Black Watch for my family instead…

Perhaps a bit tongue in cheek, but on a serious note, at what point does a pattern of colors become the implied (or explicit) possession of a group of people such that social pressure excludes others from wearing it without permission? As noted, there is not a restriction on most tartans so no legal rights actually exist.

(Side Note: For restricted tartans and those with copyright owners clearly there is a legal right to ownership and therefore this topic is null and void)

Granted, there are those here that will respond with, “Then just wear what you want and don’t bother with what others think.” Fair enough, but I am merely striking up a conversation (I already have “my” tartan and kilt) for the sake of academic discussion.

[Thomas H]

I was wondering the same thing so + 1 for me too.

All so why is it that only one Mill can run a certain tartan and only that Mill.
But I can buy the same tartan i from a vendor here in PV and it is ok ?

** Who owns the tartan ? ** and is it really a big deal here in the US ?

[Leoghan]

i don't have much to add in way of answers but this does seem to be a good topic and promise to be a learning experience I'm most sure. *** for the thought provoking question.

[RockyR]

I was wondering the same thing so + 1 for me too.

All so why is it that only one Mill can run a certain tartan and only that Mill.
But I can buy the same tartan i from a vendor here in PV and it is ok ?

** Who owns the tartan ? ** and is it really a big deal here in the US ?

THIS question (above) may be due to copyright issues and permissions. I.E. HOE has the copyright on all of the Irish County tartans. THEY hold the right we weave them in wool as they CREATED them, so that's their right. They gave MM permission to weave the County Fermannagh tartan in PV, so THAT one is available in PV from MM only AND in wool from HOE only.

The copyright holder / designer is the one who decides who can / can't weave the tartan. When the copyright holder is a mill, it's pretty obvious that they'd want exclusivity on their own design.

[Thomas H]

THIS question (above) may be due to copyright issues and permissions. I.E. HOE has the copyright on all of the Irish County tartans. THEY hold the right we weave them in wool as they CREATED them, so that's their right. They gave MM permission to weave the County Fermannagh tartan in PV, so THAT one is available in PV from MM only AND in wool from HOE only.

Thank you for the information -I understand now - and it seems like with some vendors they just change the color or pattern to make it there own so they can sell it.

Exsample - I bought a PV Kilt from Clansmen knit wear - Ralph said it was his tartan to have made into kilts (I did not think much about it then ) But now I know he was (bad words ) Anyway - The Ancient Ferguson in wool belongs to a Mill (?)
But Ralph sell it in PV or Acrylic - But he changes the colors to make it his own -
The Anc. red turns into orange - But Clansmen Knitwear makes it Bright hunting Orange in order to get around the copy right laws

The copyright holder / designer is the one who decides who can / can't weave the tartan. When the copyright holder is a mill, it's pretty obvious that they'd want exclusivity on their own design.

[McElmurry]

As the OP pointed out most tartans are not restricted and do not require anyone's permission to wear. When someone starts a thread asking about tartan wearing convention I assume they are looking for some level of reassurance to help them feel comfortable with their tartan selection. Xmarkers tend to reassure the poster in predictable ways such as wear what you want and don't worry about it, have a story to tell about the tartan, or get the Chief's permission. In my opinion these threads are much more about the confidence of the new kilt wearer and not really about legal standing.

[John McQuillen]

I see a theme (sometimes repeating) of people asking about wearing tartans to which they feel they have no actual right. I don’t want to rehash all those comments, but suffice it to say, it usually comes down to respect. Inevitably someone always comments that the inquiring person ought to just ask the Clan Chief for permission. This poses a new twist on the question for me and one that I hope can generate some discussion.

Who actually OWNS a tartan? Asked another way, I have understood that Clan Chiefs “endorse” a tartan to be worn by their family/clan. And can endorse additional tartans pretty much as their exclusive right as the Chief. Is this paramount to ownership?

As an example, I have noted that very few family/clan tartans are actually restricted. So, where does the “ownership” come from? If I were to decide that I wanted to use Auld Scotland for my family and thereby declare it as my family’s tartan, would that somehow mean that others were not allowed to wear it without my permission? Taken a bit further, if I were to have several friends and our families mutually supported each other and so we all agreed to wear Auld Scotland to show our mutual support for each other, does that make us a clan? And if so, does that finally preclude others from wearing Auld Scotland without our newly formed clan’s permission? Or by another example, what if I too wanted to use Black Watch for my family instead…

Perhaps a bit tongue in cheek, but on a serious note, at what point does a pattern of colors become the implied (or explicit) possession of a group of people such that social pressure excludes others from wearing it without permission? As noted, there is not a restriction on most tartans so no legal rights actually exist.

(Side Note: For restricted tartans and those with copyright owners clearly there is a legal right to ownership and therefore this topic is null and void)

Granted, there are those here that will respond with, “Then just wear what you want and don’t bother with what others think.” Fair enough, but I am merely striking up a conversation (I already have “my” tartan and kilt) for the sake of academic discussion.

As I understand it (and I readily admit I may not be entirely accurate) many tartans reflected different regions and variations of dyes etc. At some point various clan chiefs appointed a tartan to be the one appropriate for the clan, in some cases this was registered with Lord Lyon.

As you have mentioned there are those that are designed and registered as restricted tartans and presumably their designer or the person who commissioned the design is the legal owner. Otherwise tartans can be lawfully used by anyone.

So yes you could adopt a tartan, however, adopting a tartan with an established history/purpose I would imagine woud prevent it from becoming exclusively your clan's tartan specially in these litigious times. One might also ask why not just design a new tartan and register it as a restricted taran?

In any case adoption of a tartan or not, I think unless you register it as restricted when you design it there is no precluding others from using it so it becomes a moot point.

The social pressure you mention is a kind of etiquette in certain circles....... No one is forced to do it but neither can one expect to be accepted in those circles if they choose not to. The 'pattern of colours' isn't just a pattern of colours, it has a meaning/heritage/symbolism attached. It represents groups of people and the events of their lives......From an academic point of view I would guess that designing a tartan and having it associated with a group of people for several hundred years without a more substantial association to the same pattern and voila...... People will expect only people of that group to wear it in certain circles .......seems easier to just design and register a new tartan as yours with full legal ownership rights.....

[Thomas H]

There are some companys that are calling the tartan by it name but in fact changeing the colors to bypass the copyright laws.
\
exsample # I bought a kilt in Acrylic from clans men knitwear and they called it -
Ancient Ferguson and in fact it was different -Organge was bright hunter Organge.
and the measurement of line to line was off .

So be carefull what you buy from whom. I was happy thinking I was getting my family kilt
But got a knock off

[McClef]

Copyright laws will vary but unless protected by something additional (such as under the Royal prerogative) there is a time limit after the demise of the originator when something then comes into the public domain.

Tartans designed by the Sobieski Bros, for example, would therefore tend to no longer under copyright no matter who originally accepted them.

[David Thorpe]

...seems easier to just design and register a new tartan as yours with full legal ownership rights.....

That process is much easier than it might seem. Scotweb has an excellent tartan design tool set. And Marton Mills, for one, will weave whatever you want very inexpensively in 13 or 16 oz. wool or PV, provided you can get several of your friends and/or kinsmen to get together with you for an order. I am part of such an order right now for one of our clan tartans in PV.