Questions & Pics of my New Seaforth Box

**truckie561** · 8th August 12, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by Spartan Tartan

I have not personally seen a left closing kilt before--male or female. I have seen mentioned here at XMTS that a couple people have specified a left closing on the kilt for reasons that meet their needs, but it was not gender.

If it were mine, I would keep it as is and just hem the length a bit. I am a giant of enormous proportions as I tower at a full 67 inches as well.

I would need about 2.5 inches of length removed to keep it from rubbing my calves excessively.

Great find.

-So there is something definitely uncommon about this kilt?
-So sterotypically, the overall general impression about a kilt that closes on the left hip means that it was designed for a woman?
-If I wear it to a Burn's Supper or in a parade/performance, am I gonna get asked why I'm wearing a woman's kilt?

**Oddern** · 13th August 12, 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by truckie561

Again...going on my limited experience, are both apons shaped the same on their ends or is it only the outer apron that is shaped?

On a well made kilt both aprons are shaped, but the tartan on the under apron is most likely not centered. The over apron usually have fringes and the under apron haven't.

Originally Posted by truckie561

-So there is something definitely uncommon about this kilt?
-So sterotypically, the overall general impression about a kilt that closes on the left hip means that it was designed for a woman?
-If I wear it to a Burn's Supper or in a parade/performance, am I gonna get asked why I'm wearing a woman's kilt?

Answer 1: Yes
Answer 2: In general, Yes
Answer 3: Probably not. The general knowledge about kilts are quite limited.

Skål!

**The Wizard of BC** · 13th August 12, 02:06 AM

If I can approach this from a kiltmakers standpoint.....

I am, in addition to a kiltmaker, a Docent at the Royal BC Museum. We have many Seaforth kilts in our collection. All are Military Box Pleated and all are fastened on the right hip.

From the look of the position of the straps and buckles on your kilt, and due to the distortion of the fabric where the straps attach I would assume that this kilt had been altered at some time. This would also account for the Velcro on the right hip.

if you look at the edge of what is now the outer apron you can see that it does not completely cover the now inner apron and the edge is not tapered. This would indicate that the aprons have been reversed at some time.

The position of the straps and buckles appears higher than is normally found on these kilts. The top strap is usually between 2" and 4" from the top of the kilt. if the straps and buckles were in a lower position the kilt would be able to be worn higher on your body and may fit better at the knee.

If you look at your photo that shows the front of the kilt with the straps and buckles you can plainly see that the fabric of the apron is being pulled out of shape. This should not be there. Built into your kilt should be some internal stabilizer and interfacings. These are to prevent distortion of the fabric.

It is possible that if this kilt were altered to buckle on the left that the position of the straps and buckles was changed and the stabilizer missed when the buckles were re-sewn onto the the kilt. I think I can see where the stabilizer is in your kilt due to the distortion of the fabric of the pleats. It looks that the buckles used to be almost two inches lower than they are now.

One way you can check for this is to pull on the buckle on the left hip while holding the kilt were you would expect the right buckle to be. look at the pleated area in the back of the kilt as you pull. You should see no movement or stretching of the kilt. Not any, nada, none. If you see any stretch it is a good bet that whoever altered the kilt sewed the buckles on in the wrong place.

Let us know if you see any stretch in your kilt.

**truckie561** · 13th August 12, 05:18 PM

Steve, thanks for the detailed response. I really appreciate your recommendations on "troubleshooting" this kilt. Maybe we'll get this one figured out. I'll grab the kilt and post a few more pics tomorrow of the aprons reversed.

**LitTrog** · 13th August 12, 02:53 AM

Originally Posted by truckie561

-If I wear it to a Burn's Supper or in a parade/performance, am I gonna get asked why I'm wearing a woman's kilt?

With your build--no. Someone may think it, but I doubt they'll ask it.

Honestly, the reversal is not something that would jump out at me at all.

**ScotFree** · 13th August 12, 05:09 AM

Just a thought, albeit an uneducated one. Is it possible that this kilt was made for a lefty? Hence the reverse aprons?

**LitTrog** · 13th August 12, 05:56 AM

I also remember several months ago one of our resident kilt-makers built a kilt for an amputee. Might help explain the Velcro, also.

**truckie561** · 13th August 12, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by LitTrog

I also remember several months ago one of our resident kilt-makers built a kilt for an amputee. Might help explain the Velcro, also.

L.T., this is the second authentic military kilt I purchased that only had the two straps on the outer apron, with no strap or button hole on the under apron. Someone on this forum (Matt N. or Wizard of BC) said that soldiers were given the straps and used to be responsible for sewing the straps onto their kilts. And a lot of the soldiers opted to only sew the two straps on the outer apron....or something like that. But, the whole point of that was to say that the strap on the under apron isn't really necessary if you wear the kilt fairly snug.

**truckie561** · 14th August 12, 05:42 PM

OK. Two more pics. The first pic is the apron edge/profile of, what is now, the under apron.
The second pic is the apron edge of the top apron. I think we have this figured out...tell me what you think.

Shaped

Not Shaped

**The Wizard of BC** · 14th August 12, 07:31 PM

These last two pics do indeed give us the answer.

There are three things that pop out at me and tell me that this kilt has been altered at some time in the recent past.

1) The width of the white or cream colored lining. This piece of fabric is normally 6" to 8" wide. On this kilt that appears much narrower now.
It also appears that the fabric is different behind the two aprons, white in the top photo and cream in the bottom photo. The cream is standard and probably part of the original.

2) The position and placement of the two straps. The straps are significantly lower than they would usually be on a kilt of this vintage and issue. The top strap would normally be placed approx. 2" to 4" below the waistband. The Lower strap is positioned on the apron facing only. This is very unusual. The lower strap would usually be mounted to the apron interfacing and covered with the lining.

3) The biggest give-away is the apron tapering. In the top photo you can clearly see the taper to the apron. This taper is absent in the lower photo. The tapered apron would normally be the outer apron.

If we go back to the original photos of you wearing this kilt I am still convinced that this kilt is too small for you. The outer apron should overlap the under apron completely.
I am also convinced that for some reason this kilt was altered by someone who is not a kiltmaker and knew little about the internal construction of kilts.

I am pretty sure this kilt could be put back to its original configuration quite easily. You will most certainly need to have the stabilizer and interfacing replaced. You will need a new lining. The straps and buckles seem to be worn but serviceable, but it would not cost much to replace them.

All in all you have a good kilt. The fabric and original construction seem to be good with many years of life still in the kilt.

I would estimate that labor costs to repair this kilt would be in the $150.00=$200.00usd range.