Irish Kilt?

[bikercelt1]

We all know that the Kilt is not Irish, but culturally unaware people don't. There are more people that ask if I'm Irish than ask if I'm Scottish ( I always respond that I'm American but my ancestors were Irish and Scottish). I sometimes point out that if I was dressed in "Irish clothes" people probably wouldn't even recognise that I was dressed in ethnic clothing.

Jamie

[McElmurry]

Black Raven Pipe Band 1914
Cork Examiner



The Black Raven Pipe Band 2010

[Riverkilt]

I have Irish blood through all four of my grandparents.



So, kilts work for me as a way to honor that Irish blood.



A fine leather kilt would have worked well for the chill and foul weather back in County Louth.

[Zardoz]

Here is the still from The Quiet Man with John Wayne's sons wearing kilts:

Those boys blue kilts are representative of what many Irish school uniforms were like in the time the film takes place.

[O'Callaghan]

Well, here we go again.

Firstly, let me point out that this is X Marks the SCOT.

Next, Gaelic culture in the Scottish Highlands came from Ireland, not vicea versa. Yes, the people there are also of Pictish and Viking origin, but the language is not (to the extent it is still used), nor much of the culture. Yes, the kilt originates in Scotland, but it is derived from the Irish brat (rhymes with cart, not with cat), which was a cloak.

To confuse matters, the English sent Scots as settlers over to Ireland to deliberately change the demographics of the population, but that was hundreds of years later, and few of them were highlanders, although due to internal migration, many were of highland descent. If that weren't confusing enough, there was even later population movement from Ireland to Scotland, mainly to cities (Sean Connery and Billy Connolly are famous Scots of recent Irish descent).

There were indeed Irish clans. Clan based ownership of land comes from the Brehon law, another thing which the Gaels brought to the Highlands from Ireland. Sorry, the Scots DID NOT invent clans. Some may split hairs by insisting on calling Irish clans septs instead of clans, but AFAIK this is only based on one reference in one book, and arguing about what to call them is sophistry anyway. Cromwell forced many Irish clan chiefs off their land, and forcibly relocated some to Connaught, the Western province of Ireland, moving the chief of the Callaghans in particular from County Cork to County Clare.

As for tartan and clan tartans, that's two questions. Celts wore tartan before they ever set foot in the British Isles, and the brats (cloaks) worn by the Irish who founded the Gaelic culture in the Highlands were said to be 'striped', so probably tartan.

Most Scottish clan tartans, OTOH, were only designed hundreds of years after the clan system died out. As for Irish tartans with actual names, let alone representing Irish clans, these are even more recent. However, several registers of tartans now exist, and anyone can essentiallly register anything they like to represent any group, as long as they have some woven, so under such a system Callaghan Modern is as valid as McDoofus of Mullthwacket Muted, or WHY, and sometimes the Scottish ones are not much older than the Irish ones. I actually have cousins in Scotland whose clan tartan goes back to all of 1986 (to be fair, they are lowland or border Scots).

Irish kilts were conceived in the latter part of the 19th century, at the tail end of the celtic revival period, and were originally solid saffron or solid green, to deliberately be different from tartan kilts worn in Scotland. There is some irony in this, given that firstly the Scots got tartan from the Irish, and secondly solid colour kilts were once relatively common in Scotland. I consider the events of over 100 years ago to be history, but evidently some here choose not to.

IME it is not popular on a site with SCOT in the name to point out that tartan and clans (but not clan tartans nor kilts) and Gaelic came to Scotland from Ireland, and yet they did. Nor is it popular to say that the first kilts originated by wearing a belt over the top of an Irish cloak, and yet they did.

As for whether anyone in Ireland wears a kilt in the present day, probably only for weddings and to play the pipes. So, about as much as in Scotland, really.

[MacSpadger]

OK, let's be concise here.

Next, Gaelic culture in the Scottish Highlands came from Ireland, not vicea versa.

Untrue.

Yes, the kilt originates in Scotland, but it is derived from the Irish brat (rhymes with cart, not with cat), which was a cloak.

Completely and utterly untrue.

Celts wore tartan before they ever set foot in the British Isles, and the brats (cloaks) worn by the Irish who founded the Gaelic culture in the Highlands were said to be 'striped', so probably tartan.

Untrue, and I mean, really untrue.

Irish kilts were conceived in the latter part of the 19th century, at the tail end of the celtic revival period, and were originally solid saffron or solid green, to deliberately be different from tartan kilts worn in Scotland.

Pearce's writings give a date of 1900, so, technically, that may place the concept of the Irish kilt in the 20th century.

There is some irony in this, given that firstly the Scots got tartan from the Irish, and secondly solid colour kilts were once relatively common in Scotland.

Again, untrue. The Scots did not get tartan from the Irish. There were solid color kilts in Scotland, but I would not describe them as commonplace.

IME it is not popular on a site with SCOT in the name to point out that tartan and clans (but not clan tartans nor kilts) and Gaelic came to Scotland from Ireland, and yet they did. Nor is it popular to say that the first kilts originated by wearing a belt over the top of an Irish cloak, and yet they did.

It's probably unpopular to say these things on here because they are not true.

As for whether anyone in Ireland wears a kilt in the present day, probably only for weddings and to play the pipes. So, about as much as in Scotland, really.

Again, untrue. Kilt wearers can be seen everyday in Scotland that are not connected in any way with piping or weddings. What a heap o' kak.
If you have any evidence to the contrary, please post your academic references. Most of what you say appears to be in opposition to established Irish and Scottish history, so you may well be breaking new ground.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I'm kind of surprised no one has yet linked to this article on Irish kilts and tartans, written by Todd Wilkinson and myself. You may find it helpful, Meaghan.
http://scottishtartans.org/irish_kilts.htm

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I would not go so far as to agree with 100% with what O'Callaghan has written, but it is historically true that the Gaelic language came to Scotland by way of Ireland roughly 1500 years ago. It is also true that the earliest origins of the kilt are from the wrap/mantle which was common to both the Irish Gaels and Scottish Gaels; the transition from this garment to what we would come to know as the kilt began in the Scottish Highlands more than 400 years ago.

But neither of these facts has all that much to do with the late nineteenth century attempt by certain Irish Nationalists to adopt the kilt as Irish National dress, nor the popularity of the "Irish tartans" mostly among Americans today. I think our article which I linked to above does a good job of explaining those phenomena.

The attempt to justify modern-day Irish kilt wearing by evoking what may be a true historic fact from 500 or 1500 years ago is a little misleading because it implies a continuous tradition when there is not any.

[RockyR]

Anyone else notice the pleats are in the front (or perhaps all the way around... I can't tell b/c we can't see the back of anyone)?

Black Raven Pipe Band 1914
Cork Examiner

[Tobus]

Good eye, Rocky! I looked at that photo for several minutes, but didn't realize that they were pleated in front. I did notice, though, the lack of sporrans, which seems to be prevalent with the Irish kilt-wearing style of that era.