Uh oh! MOD sporran cantle trouble

[Tobus]

I'm hoping someone here can help me out with some advice.

I've finally gotten around to building a sporran body for my brass MOD "Jacobite style" cantle. I'll be building several 'bags' for it, in fact. This first one was just to test my pattern and see what needs adjusting. Last night I was in the process of un-snapping the new bag from the cantle when one of the 'buttons' popped out of the cantle.

I do not have a photo of the detached button or the inside of the cantle. But those of you who own these cantles know what they look like. There are four of them on each inside face (4 on the front piece, 4 on the back). These are what the bag snaps onto, via a snap that's stitched into the leather. These buttons have a 'shoulder' that lays flush against the inside of the cantle, with a smaller diameter 'dowel' protruding from the shoulder that is simply pressed into a small hole in the face of the cantle. The dowel is the same length as the thickness of the brass plate, so it is flush on the back side. You can see two of them in the photo below (towards the bottom of the cantle; the other two are hidden by the belt):



I guess this one was just loose, or didn't have enough bind to keep it in the hole. I do not see any evidence of anything else used to keep it secure. So how do I fix it?

As far as I can tell, there are probably three options.

1. Press the button back into the hole on the cantle and solder it from the backside (which in this case, luckily, is the back of the sporran, not the front). It would just leave a small ugly dab of solder. I hesitate to try soldering on the inside mating surface and pressing it in, for fear that the button will not fully seat itself to the shoulder. I can see that solder has been used elsewhere inside the cantle, especially near the top where the rim meets the back plate. The main problem with this is that I'm not exactly a whiz at soldering. Every time I've tried it, it turns into an ugly mess.

2. I could try pressing the button back into the hole and then soldering around it on the inside, much like a fillet weld. But again, this might turn into a mess, and I'm not sure how much holding power it would have.

3. Press the button back into the hole on the cantle with no solder, and just use a sharp punch from the back side to 'peen' the dowel, spreading it out and binding it in the hole. This is a common method that I've used in gunsmithing. I just haven't done it with brass before, which is much softer than steel. And this dowel is much smaller than anything I've peened before. I would obviously need to do it with caution.

So do you have any other ideas that might work?

[KD Burke]

I had a problem with my MOD cantle. The hinge broke at the point where it was soldered to the body of the cantle.

Fortunately, I have an acquaintance who is a silversmith and jeweller. He's well acquainted with delicate soldering jobs. He was able to reattach my hinge, but suggested that it's only a matter of time before it goes again.

So, you may want to ask around if there is a jeweller or electronics repairmen among your social circle. They may have the soldering skills required to get it from both sides.

[Harold Cannon]

Tobus, One of mine was loose and a little bit of J.B. Weld worked wonders. Just apply it, press together, and clean off the extra. Then clamp it to cure.

[Downunder Kilt]

Tobus, One of mine was loose and a little bit of J.B. Weld worked wonders. Just apply it, press together, and clean off the extra. Then clamp it to cure.

Tobus, I also have had trouble with these little buggers and have used the same method as Harold. Ordinary solder is no good for the job, you would have to use silver solder which requires more heat and can easily damage the body of the cantle.

[Harold Cannon]

LOL! Great minds think alike they say!

[Tobus]

Well I'm glad I'm not the only person who has had this issue!

So, you may want to ask around if there is a jeweller or electronics repairmen among your social circle. They may have the soldering skills required to get it from both sides.

Good idea. My wife is friends with a silversmith, so I've asked her to take it to him and see if he can do it.

Tobus, One of mine was loose and a little bit of J.B. Weld worked wonders. Just apply it, press together, and clean off the extra. Then clamp it to cure.

Thanks Harold. I'll use that as a Plan B if soldering doesn't do the trick. I don't know why I didn't think of good old JB Weld.

Tobus, I also have had trouble with these little buggers and have used the same method as Harold. Ordinary solder is no good for the job, you would have to use silver solder which requires more heat and can easily damage the body of the cantle.

Well, I don't know what kind of solder was originally used to assemble the cantle, but obviously there's some type of solder that does the job without damaging the brass. When I inspect the inside of the cantle, there is solder holding every part together. Hopefully the silversmith will know just what to use.

[Snake78]

Tobus, I also have had trouble with these little buggers and have used the same method as Harold. Ordinary solder is no good for the job, you would have to use silver solder which requires more heat and can easily damage the body of the cantle.

I have done some high temperature silver soldering on parts that could not be distorted. I used a heat-absorbing paste to prevent discoloration and distortion. This paste is just spread around the area that you are soldering at to keep extra heat transfer at bay.

This is what I used: http://www.laco.com/prod/14/bloc-it-...ing-paste.aspx

[Downunder Kilt]

I have done some high temperature silver soldering on parts that could not be distorted. I used a heat-absorbing paste to prevent discoloration and distortion. This paste is just spread around the area that you are soldering at to keep extra heat transfer at bay.

This is what I used: http://www.laco.com/prod/14/bloc-it-...ing-paste.aspx

Thanks for the tip Snake78, cheers

[Aspiringloser]

I solder copper regularly in my line of work. I use a gel rather than the paste mentioned above. I will warn anyone who plans on using this type of heat block to be sure not to get any on the actual parts that need soldering. You'll likely not get solder to stick where any of this stuff has gotten on the joint you're trying to solder.

[Tobus]

Success! My wife's silversmith friend fixed it all up as good as new. He soldered it back in and I can't even tell it was ever an issue. He did it free of charge, too!

Oh, and while he had it, he cleaned it up very nicely. I was still struggling with the polishing in some of the more tarnished areas. But he used a buffing wheel and some jeweler's rouge and the darn silly thing looks practically brand new (except for some of the minor scratches and gouges that give it character). As a matter of fact, now I'm going to have to let it develop a patina so it doesn't look so blingy.

It went from this:



To this:




I'm not really done with this sporran yet. The bag construction itself is done, but I still need to do some 4-part round braids with Turk's head knots for the tassels on the sides and front. Plus hammer out my gusset seams so it flattens out. This was a trial sporran, though, and I have a lot of improvements I want to make to the pattern. I'm going to make the bag a little longer and with a slightly larger diameter bottom. Plus I need to get just a wee bit more relief at the top of the gusset where it buttons onto the side knobs of the sporran hinge (this one is pretty tight). My second model will have an internal phone pocket just like this one (not shown), but it will have an internal lining as well.

So anyway, crisis averted! Thanks for your help, guys.