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28th August 12, 10:25 AM
#81
 Originally Posted by SlackerDrummer
Two pieces of tartan sewn together.
Is there really any way of knowing? It would have been something that needed to be wider than one width of woven fabric, but even then that doesn't narrow the field by all that much. Though it would have been something still whole, otherwise there wouldn't be enough fabric to make something else out of it. The obvious things would be great kilt, curtains, bed hanging. But even then, the only requirement would be something larger than the cushion itself.
Yes but what about the make up/setting of the cloth?
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28th August 12, 10:27 AM
#82
 Originally Posted by cable scot
Was it part of a kilt? The tabs on the one side for waist ties?
No. Look again at the 'tabs', particularly the top one in the first image. What does that tell you?
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28th August 12, 11:35 AM
#83
The tabs were probably ways of affixing the cushions, so in and of themselves don't tell us about the original use. However, looking at the tab in the close-up, I can see a herringbone pattern, so that is probably cut from next to the selvedge. That would be a date indicator, correct? 18th C? Even though it is neither ground nor primary stripe, there is a very good deal of red, so obviously someone wealthy. Well, of course it is. The seat cushions of poor folks didn't last from antiquity, did they?
Kenneth Mansfield
NON OBLIVISCAR
My tartan quilt: Austin, Campbell, Hamilton, MacBean, MacFarlane, MacLean, MacRae, Robertson, Sinclair (and counting)
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28th August 12, 12:03 PM
#84
 Originally Posted by SlackerDrummer
The tabs were probably ways of affixing the cushions, so in and of themselves don't tell us about the original use. However, looking at the tab in the close-up, I can see a herringbone pattern, so that is probably cut from next to the selvedge. That would be a date indicator, correct? 18th C? Even though it is neither ground nor primary stripe, there is a very good deal of red, so obviously someone wealthy. Well, of course it is. The seat cushions of poor folks didn't last from antiquity, did they?
Now we're getting down to it .
The herringbone is not cut from next to the selvedge, it is the selvedge. Look particularly at Fig 5 here. Yes, it does date it to the 18th, probably mid-18th century and it is most certainly composed of one of the ground stripes. Having established that what else can be surmised about the cloth?
What we don't know when the cushion was made but the fact that there machine sewing means that it's at least a late C19th but more likely first half C20th re-use of the original cloth.
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28th August 12, 12:06 PM
#85
Normally the unsubstantiated guessing starts early in these threads but in this case I amazed that no-one had identified the sett .
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28th August 12, 12:16 PM
#86
 Originally Posted by figheadair
Normally the unsubstantiated guessing starts early in these threads but in this case I amazed that no-one had identified the sett  .
Glenorchy
Kenneth Mansfield
NON OBLIVISCAR
My tartan quilt: Austin, Campbell, Hamilton, MacBean, MacFarlane, MacLean, MacRae, Robertson, Sinclair (and counting)
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28th August 12, 12:33 PM
#87
 Originally Posted by SlackerDrummer
Glenorchy
That didn't take long. And the deduction is....?
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28th August 12, 01:06 PM
#88
Wilsons of Bannockburn fabric dating from the late 18th to early 19th centuries originally intended to be worn as a plaid.
Last edited by SlackerDrummer; 28th August 12 at 01:07 PM.
Kenneth Mansfield
NON OBLIVISCAR
My tartan quilt: Austin, Campbell, Hamilton, MacBean, MacFarlane, MacLean, MacRae, Robertson, Sinclair (and counting)
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28th August 12, 01:52 PM
#89
 Originally Posted by SlackerDrummer
Wilsons of Bannockburn fabric dating from the late 18th to early 19th centuries originally intended to be worn as a plaid.
Date - See #84.
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1st September 12, 04:32 AM
#90
Okay, so it's been a short month and it's the last Tartan of the Month I'm going to do. Hopefully it will have stimulated an interest in the types and techniques of historic tartans and encouraged people to see and not just look. I will be writing this month's one up fully and publishing on my site but in the mean time here's a review of what was worked out by the rabble and an idea of some deductions/questions that should have followed:
What - is it now, and in the case of tartan has it been altered or its use changed? (this is the crux and should include all the visual clues such as setting, weave, colours etc).
There are two large pieces of similar proportions (but slightly different shades) and some smaller fragments attached to one piece. That same piece comprises two pieces joined along a selvedge. The material is twill weave except for one of the small fragments which is a herringboned selvedge. There is evidence of damage, wear and tear and some mis-threaded warping errors. These facts and the shades indicate a hand woven piece that was originally a joined plaid that has been reused at some point. The existence of an ordinary, twill and a herringbone selvedge is consistent with an offset warp intended for a joined plaid. The setting is one of a small number of old asymmetric ones.
One of the pieces, the brighter, was washed by the finder and that action removed the blue element of the green shade clearly visible in the unwashed piece. This suggests a very lightly top-dyed green possibly produced by using the exhaust bath of the indigo used for the dark blue.
Where - is it and does this have a bearing on its origins?
No-one asked but it belongs to me and it was my family that purchased it in the farm sale in St. Fillans (Loch Earn) in the mid-1970s.
When - does it date to?
Rurally woven joined plaids with a herringboned selvedge ceased to be woven by around 1770, possibly earlier so this one is likely to date to c1740-60.
Who - owned it or what else is known about it?
The tartan is a version of what is commonly called Glenorchy or MacIntyre which is a tartan claimed to be old but which could previously only be dated to c1810 and Wilsons’ cloth in the Cockburn Collection. This specimen pre-dates that by at least 50 years. Also found in the same chest as the tartan was a large decorated bottle engraved with Highland figures, a Gaelic inscription, the names of two people (getting married) and dated 1847. One of those named was George MacIntyre. Nothing is known about the origins of the family and the tartan and bottle are definitely of different periods but it’s possible that the former had been handed down in the MacIntyre family which would validate the original connection and alternative name of the tartan which would be historically very significant.
Ultimately, these frgments represent the oldest setting of the Glenorchy/MacIntyre tartan.
Last edited by figheadair; 1st September 12 at 11:14 PM.
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