Irish kilt books

[opositive]

All Things Scottish





Angus: Welcome to All Things Scottish. Me name’s Angus. Can I help yoo?

Customer #3: Sure, Angus, I’d like to get something Scottish for my dad, like a little leprechaun.

Angus: A leprechaun? Well … leprechauns are, in fact, Irish.

Customer #3: Oh … Irish, Scottish, it’s the same thing.





Stuart Rankin: Oh, it’s the same thing, is it?!? [ whips out a map of Europe and points to it ] HAVE A LOOK AT THE MAP!! THERE’S SCOTLAND! THERE’S IRELAND! THERE’S THE BLOODY SEA!! THEY’RE DIFFERENT, NOW GET OUT!!

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we are a little slow in the u.s., but we do get it eventually. but also remember that ireland and scotland are separated on a map from the u.s. by an ocean.

[O'Callaghan]

If the argument is that "history" is anything prior the the present moment, then I could sew up a kilt out of fuschia neoprene and the moment it is completed it is an historical garment, if you will excuse an absurd example that makes the point.

We all know the facts and we all know what Matt meant, that the kilt had no ancient traditional existence in Ireland.

"History" means an account or record of what happened in the past and sadly there are large chunks of Scotland's and Ireland's past which were never recorded. The costume of Scotland and Ireland is one of those areas and there isn't much "history" to go on. McClintock gathers all the evidence which was available to him at that time.

If you think the 19th century was five minutes ago you must be very old, that's all I can say!

[Chas]

See: http://www.andrewcusack.com/2010/04/...-blue-hussars/

T.

Todd, thanks for the great link. It brought back a lot of memories of my early days in the RAF. It was only about 10 years ago that the RAF closed down its Recruiting Office in Dublin. It was one of the five great prestige postings and much sought after. Happy Days.

Regards

Chas

[Kiltedmedic]

I recently had the pleasure of listening to a native American/Scot musician Arven Bird. He has an interesting take on tradition. He talks about when he performs at pow-wows and such many other native Americans question why he plays the fiddle and not a "traditional" instrument. His answer is "At what point does something become traditional?" The fiddle was introduced to America 400+ years ago.
It seems to me that if this forum were around 300 years ago (the era of Queen Victorias reported obsession with all things Scot)some people could argue that there is no historical basis for the Scots to be wearing kilts and argueing instead that it was the Roman Legions that first wore an bifurcated garment.

It is time to accept that the kilt is a Pan-Celtic-American garment. Just as the Native American headdress (initially NOT worn by all "Indians") and tee pee have become Pan-Naitve American symbols.

[flairball]

Without a trip to Ireland, you could still go straight to the source. There are a lot of Irish immigrants, of various age, living in the US. I'm sure you could find an organization, or social club that caters to them. Find a few and ask. I'm sure they'd be willing to give you an account of their recollection of "traditional" Irish kilt wearing, and dress. I've talked kilt with Irish I've met before (and there are a lot of Irish in Boston). And they've all told me the same thing; Scottish, not Irish. Not worn in Ireland except for pipers, and the odd uniform.

Sorry if that's not what you want to hear. Doesn't mean you won't find a way to wear a kilt in a classy way for your dancing.

[Nick the DSM]

It is time to accept that the kilt is a Pan-Celtic-American garment. Just as the Native American headdress (initially NOT worn by all "Indians") and tee pee have become Pan-Naitve American symbols.

To be blount, why? For native Americans to fill in a false stereotype? For Irish-Americans to wear something they won't feel comfortable till they know they can "legally" wear it?

[Downunder Kilt]

It is time to accept that the kilt is a Pan-Celtic-American garment. Just as the Native American headdress (initially NOT worn by all "Indians") and tee pee have become Pan-Naitve American symbols.

Sorry cannot agree with the pan-celtic-american garment thing. The Kilt is scottish and people from other nations wear it. By your logic the kilt could be classed a pan-celtic-american-english-german-australian (substitute anywhere a kilt is worn)

[auld argonian]

Coming from a predominantly Irish-American neighborhood in Chicago and being wowed as a young child by the Stock Yard Kiltie Band, I'd like to point out that the only time I've ever seen anybody who lays claim to Irish heritage wear a kilt is when they've either been in a pipe band or the odd few college age types that show up for the St. Patrick's Day Parade here. That's it. Not like I ever see anybody in a kilt ever turn up in one or another of the many Irish bars hereabouts...I guarantee that if you did, the first question would be, "Where's your bagpipes?" or "Who died?", the latter on the assumption that you were playing the pipes at somebody's funeral. If you said that you didn't play the pipes, you'd get a whole big load of sh*t from the locals, most of whom will be wearing jeans and t-shirts with the occasional tweed flat cap or maybe Irish fisherman's sweater thrown in.

Mention the Trinity Irish Dancers and I think of the Irish Dance groups that we had in my old neighborhood (circa 1960's) and how much abuse the boys, who did wear simple navy blue kilts, jackets and ties back then, got from everybody in the school. (Okay...kids will be like that...but these were the kids from the Good Old Irish Families of the neighborhood so you'd think that there'd be a little slack cut.)

Now...I only lay that all out because I'd love to know why the Irish emigres and their descendants who started these pipe bands chose to go with the kilt as a uniform...or, in fact, why they even decided to go with bagpipes...since both the pipes and the kilt are associated with the Scots. There were brass bands in the Ireland that the emigres left...why not brass bands instead of pipe bands? Friend of mine ran a music store hereabouts a few years ago and I suggested that we might form a tin whistle and bodhran marching band for the South Side Irish Parade...seemed like it might be more authentic.

So I'm curious about why the Irish Americans adopted Scottish dress and instruments. I think that a lot of the association of the Irish with the kilt is tied to the pipe band thing. Any opinions?

Best

AA

[Tobus]

So I'm curious about why the Irish Americans adopted Scottish dress and instruments. I think that a lot of the association of the Irish with the kilt is tied to the pipe band thing. Any opinions?

I'm sure some of the experts will have better info than I, but my opinion (or should I say... guess) is that the American adoption of the kilt as some sort of symbol of Irishness happened during the early 1900s, as the Irish diaspora attempted to support the idea of Irish nationalism. There is an astounding body of evidence that much of the support for Irish nationalism came from America, and I'd bet that these Americans tended to buy into the idea of a new Irish national dress (i.e. the kilt) as proposed by the nationalists in Ireland at the time, where their cousins in the old country did not. In other words, the idea took off here in America but fell flat in Ireland. And so we diverged, landing us where we are today: with many Americans thinking that kilts are properly Irish, where the actual Irish don't.

[bikercelt1]

I don't offer this as any explanation of why Irish Americans choose Bagpipes or Kilts but in my own experience when someone asks why I'm wearing a Kilt and if I'm Irish or Scottish I always point out that in a Kilt it's obvious that I'm wearing ethnic clothing but if I was dressed in "Irish garb" I'd just blend in and most people wouldn't even realise I was wearing ethnic clothing.