Don't copy a tartan...

[David Thorpe]

If I chand the grille on my Camaro can rename it and sell it as something else?

Sure, you can sell it as something else. 20,000 of them, not so much.

[artificer]

I find this interesting and a bit disconcerting. Generally, changing a main color (grey to brown) of a tartan is considered to be enough of a change to warrant a new listing in the Tartan Register. Heck, someone took my "German Heritage" tartan and changed the gold stripe to maroon and called it the "Greatest Scot" tartan with the rest of the tartan intact "as is". The STA DID approve it (I emailed Brian Wilton and he said it was a big enough change to make it different) even after I objected...

Wow, that is terrible! I'm surprised that the STA approved something like that.

It makes me glad we never spent the £ to get the R'lyeh sett registered.

Don't like the can of worms this could open.

At the same time, if designs are not actively protected all someone would have to do is add and extra thread to any copyrighted design and it's "new", or change the tone from Modern to Ancient, and it's new.
The whole field of IP is a can of worms, sitting in a minefield, on an island surrounded by sharks (lawyers).

PS: My apologies to any sharks that may have been offended by the comparison to lawyers

ith:

[M. A. C. Newsome]

We are talking about a number of different things here. First of all, when the STA enters a tartan into the International Tartan Index, it is not making any kind of judgment about the veracity of that tartan -- it is simply a record that the tartan exists. A simple color change, a stripe added or removed; while these things may not be enough to prove a significant difference in a copyright law suit, they do change the tartan enough to warrant a different listing. So, for example, the "Spring Meadow" tartan would be listed independently of the "Skye Sage" in the ITI because the change of color makes it a different tartan.

And if the Spring Meadow tartan was designed by the same company that designed and owned the rights to Skye Sage, then there would be no problem. But someone else copied their design, changed one color, and is now selling and making a profit from it. That alone is not enough to get them into trouble. The people who owned the rights to the original design had to challenge this. Which they did. And they won. Good for them.

If Rocky wants to challenge whomever stole his design, changed one stripe, and called it "Greatest Scot," in a similar law suit, he could. Assuming that person is doing business here in the US, it would be simple enough to do. If that person is in the UK, Pakistan, or some other country, it would get much more difficult, and Rocky may decide it is not worth doing. But if he chose to do so, then groups like the STA could help provide documentation that his German Heritage tartan was in fact designed and recorded by them at an earlier date, proving that design preexisted the other, etc.

[Mainer In Exile]

I may be particularly obtuse, but I do not see a tartan entitled "Greatest Scot" in either the STA's Tartan Ferret or the Scottish Register of Tartans. I only see it on one commercial weaver's online catalogue, where it is labeled "The Greatest Scot". Even though the registries are inconsistent in determining whether the article "the" is part of the title for alphabetizing (normally it is not, but for a couple of exceptions, it is), that name cannot be located either.

So is this just a case of one manufacturer producing a design conflicting with a registered pattern?

Allen

[O'Callaghan]

Surely this sort of ruling is only applicable to corporate tartans, yes? I mean, if someone were to "copy" a traditional clan tartan by changing one or two colours and marketing it, they wouldn't be found liable under the same type ruling, would they?

It could, but to have copyright infringement there does have to be an owner of the copyright. So, if by traditional you mean that the originator of the tartan is lost in the mists of time, or has left no legal successor, then you may be right. Also, copyright has a term of life of the author plus fifty or seventy years, depending upon what country you are in, so copyright on many such traditional tartans will have actually expired.

I am not a lawyer. I am a patent agent, and although I am a Brit I am only admitted to practice in the US. Patent agents can practice copyright law in the UK and France, but not in the US or anywhere else AFAIK.

Note: FWIW, patent agents can practice trademark law in almost every country except the US, but we aren't talking about trademarks here, as we aren't talking about unauthorised use of the name of the tartan. OTOH, I could help someone get a US design patent (which other countries would call either a registered design or a design model) on a tartan, but in the US system that would protect only the pattern of the stripes and not the actual colours (not so elsewhere), and more importantly it would expire long before copyright. I could also, of course, represent someone trying to get a regular patent, but in terms of kilts that might be a structural feature or a new type of fabric, but not the sett.

[cessna152towser]

I find this interesting and a bit disconcerting. Generally, changing a main color (grey to brown) of a tartan is considered to be enough of a change to warrant a new listing in the Tartan Register.

That was my initial thought as well.
There has to be a certain amount of creativity in deciding what colours will work and which ones won't, also in deciding whether or not there is a need to alter the thread count.
Given that the case was contested I would not be at all surprised if it goes to the appeal court.

[figheadair]

This is interesting. I can't wait to see all the fallout. Also, I'm wondering if some of our Tartan Authority's folks would like to cast an opinion. Matt, Peter, where are you when we need you? And, was Peter consulted by the plaintiffs solicitors prior to the case being heard?

The OP was the first I'd heard of this case which as others have said, opens up cans of all sorts of worms such as:

Colour vs shade

Threadcount and proportion changes

Name similarities

Intellectual rights

etc etc.

Personally I would not accept a shade change as significantly different but even this broad criterion is complicated by the likes of Light Blue and Pink which can appear significantly different to Blue and Red.

It is arguable that true colour changes like those in weathered tartans does create a new sett but if that was uniformly accepted then each such design would need its own unique name and not just Weather MacBlank etc.

[OC Richard]

I stumbled across this not too long ago.

When I looked at these two tartans closely I realised that the only difference is the central black stripe becomes mid-grey, and the white and yellow stripes are transposed. Three clicks of the mouse would do it!




One is the bespoke tartan of The University of Glasgow, the other the bespoke tartan of the Charleston Police Pipes and Drums.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

OC Richard,

There is a bit more difference than that, but I agree they are similar. The University of Glasgow tartan has green, whereas the Charleston Pipe Band tartan does not. The yellow and white are not only transposed, but also the proportions are different.

I happen to know the designer of the Charleston Pipe Band tartan, and I am not sure if reference was made to the Glasgow University tartan or not, but if it was, it would have been intentional. For example, I designed a tartan for Emory University that looks very similar to the St. Andrews University tartan, because the two share sister school status and the Emory people wanted it to look very much like their sister school's tartan to honor that relationship.

Of course, it could also be that these two tartans (Glasgow University and Charleston Police) were designed independantly and the similarity is coincidental. With the infinite variety of colors and stripes, one would think that very unlikely, but as a tartan designer myself I can tell you that it does happen.

[Moski]

Sure, you can sell it as something else. 20,000 of them, not so much.

What I meant was exactly that. Such a minor change surely wouldn't be acceptable to any reasonable arbitrator.
my mind went back to the Isle of Skye/Bright Skye flap of a couple of years ago.