By golly, that four-in-hand know is the knot I have used for decades. Many, many moons ago I knew how to tie different knots, but now can do the four-in-hand blindfolded and have it come out correctly! I think I'm going to make up for long ties with either letting them hang over the kilt a bit, tucking the tag end in, or tucking the whole tie end in, at least till I get my tweed waistcoat! I have noticed as well that my tartan ties are shorter, and I have a few others like that. How about boy's ties? Can they work for men wearing kilts and be about right?

Frank