New Texas Tartan

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Back to the Texas Lone Star tartan, here is a photo of the actual tartan from the Things Celtic web site.


What is interesting to me is that the web site states specifically that this is 13 oz wool, woven by House of Edgar. But from the photo you can clearly see that this cloth has a tuck selvage (and a rather obvious one, at that). House of Edgar's looms have been specially refitted so as to weave cloth with a traditional woven selvage. In fact they take great pride in this aspect of their cloth. While some of their cloth, notably their less expensive Nevis range of heavy weight, is woven double width with a tuck selvage, all of their 13 oz cloth to my knowledge is woven single width with a true selvage.

Yet here we have 13 oz with a tuck selvage, supposedly woven by House of Edgar. I'm left just a bit confused, but there you go.

[RockyR]

Matt...

I didn't mean to imply that the tartans by David McGill were official. His normal MO seems to be that he creates a tartan, weaves it and makes ties in it. He sends a tie to a person in authority at the state / government and waits for his "thank you" letter. Once he gets his Thank You, he calls it "officially recognized" and prints the letter. It's THIS process that I (we?) see as most dubious and deceitful.

I agree that having a state tartan copyrighted seems to be against better judgement for the state. I agree that it may not hold up in court. Here's the issue: Who has the money to challenge it? Attorney fees for an IP attorney (which I just hired for a separate issue of copyrighting other things and drawing up Intellectual Property agreements / contracts) run about $270 / hour in Pennsylvania. Obtaining a copyright is relatively easy and can actually be done without an attorney for a few hundred or WITH an attorney for a couple grand. If you wanted to challenge an existing copyright, it would cost you upwards of $20,000 (and probably much more) in the blink of an eye... and that's not guaranteeing a win. What little mom and pop Irish shop is willing to put out that kind of money on the HOPE that they'll overturn a copyright and maybe get to use the tartan in question? The practical question is how much money would they make from the tartan itself? Most likely, the hassle of all this wouldn't be worth it.

The 13 oz cloth from HOE with a tuck selvedge... their Hebridean range (13 oz) comes with a tuck selvedge, though none of their clan tartans do to my knowledge. Clans are all woven on their single width traditional selvedge. USA Kilts has had several tartans woven custom (including the special run of Pennsylvania tartan, the Scruffy Wallace tartan, and a few others for pipe bands and groups) on their rapier looms in 13 oz with the tuck selvedge. It is a bit less expensive than their single width traditional selvedge and it's done very well (IMHO).

[RockyR]

By the way... it looks as though LL Bean had the same logical argument that Matt does about the state tartans being in the public domain and not copyright-able:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=1167,3721977

Matt... do you know for certain if the law suit was won by the couple who own the copyright or LL Bean? I seem to remember it was upheld and a quick search of LL Bean's site shows nothing with the Maine State tartan, but I can't say for 100% that the copyright owners did win. I know you blogged about the issue in 2007. Did you hear the outcome?

[Mainer In Exile]

LL Bean appears to have incorrectly assumed that the Gilis design was approved by the legislature as an official tartan. It never was. And here--five years after Matt Newsome clearly laid out the facts of the matter--there remains confusion about its "official" status. Matt said he contacted the STA, and now the Tartan Ferret entry correctly shows that this is not an official tartan. But the Scotish Register of Tartans still shows it as "official" as of 2001.

In any case, the online shop Tartans of Maine appears to assert copyright over both the Gillis (sic) pattern and its own Maine Acadia tartan, so its another case where a tartan touted as a state tartan is restricted in availability (and again, the SRT indicates no such restriction). The status of the similar Maine Dirigo pattern is unclear.

Allen

[seanachie]

Here's the issue: Who has the money to challenge it? Attorney fees for an IP attorney (which I just hired for a separate issue of copyrighting other things and drawing up Intellectual Property agreements / contracts) run about $270 / hour in Pennsylvania. Obtaining a copyright is relatively easy and can actually be done without an attorney for a few hundred or WITH an attorney for a couple grand. If you wanted to challenge an existing copyright, it would cost you upwards of $20,000 (and probably much more) in the blink of an eye... and that's not guaranteeing a win. What little mom and pop Irish shop is willing to put out that kind of money on the HOPE that they'll overturn a copyright and maybe get to use the tartan in question? The practical question is how much money would they make from the tartan itself? Most likely, the hassle of all this wouldn't be worth it.

Amen...Brother Rocky, preach on! It seems to be the way of the world. I know not your circumstances but sincerely empathize if someone has violated your copyright or IP and wind up shelling out thousands of dollars to defend it. I want to keep this on topic so suffice to say I feel your pain.