Cardinal Sin???

[Bobby Gordon]

J & B-123.jpg154.JPG

[Tobus]

I can certainly understand the practicality of wearing a belt under a waistcoat if you're going to take off the waistcoat/jacket later on in the day and want to show the belt. There's absolutely nothing "wrong" with that, and it just makes good sense. That's thinking ahead!

From the photos I'm seeing, this probably could have been executed more seamlessly (i.e. with the belts being fully hidden under the waistcoats) if the kilts were worn a little higher up, so that the bottom selvedge is at the top of the knee. I'm assuming you are the one in the center of the photo, wearing the dress sporran and fly plaid? Yours is closest to being at the 'proper' height, and it does seem that the waistplate would have been entirely hidden if you had hiked up your kilt just a smidge to show your knees. The others flanking you would likely have benefited from the same raising of their kilts so that their knees were exposed and the belts hidden under the waistcoats.

Based on the second photo, it seems like the tops of the kilts are being worn at the natural waist, which is good. But it is possible to wear them higher, especially when hidden by a waistcoat, to get the bottom edge at the top of the knees, with the double benefit of hiding the belt under the waistcoat. Then, when the waistcoat comes off, lower the kilt to the natural waist if that's where you want it.

It's water under the bridge now, of course, so don't fret it. I'm sure a good time was had by all. Minor details notwithstanding, you chaps look pretty well turned out. I love those reproduction/weathered colours!

[Bobby Gordon]

Thanks again Tobus
yeah I know what you mean, your probably right. I'm sure you know what weddings are like, just a mad rush in the morning!
Now, I'm a bit confused about the correct length: what height someone wears it is a bit out of my hands, but what you say about it coming to the top of the knee is what I've always thought, and it what is recommended in 'The Art of Kiltmaking'. But when I was making my kilt and showing it to my then fiancé and a friends mother and grandmother (so three generations of Scottish women in one room) they all said that was too much knee. When i've been into kilt-makers in Edinburgh they say to get the accurate length the client kneels on the ground and they measure from naval down to hovering just above the ground.

[BCAC]

Thanks again Tobus
yeah I know what you mean, your probably right. My brothers live in England and Spain, and the first time they'd come to see me in Scotland, so that day was the first day they'd even tried on a kilt! I'm sure you know what weddings are like, just a mad rush in the morning!
Now, I'm a bit confused about the correct length: what height someone wears it is a bit out of my hands, but what you say about it coming to the top of the knee is what I've always thought, and it what is recommended in 'The Art of Kiltmaking'. But when I was making my kilt and showing it to my then fiancé and a friends mother and grandmother (so three generations of Scottish women in one room) they all said that was too much knee. When i've been into kilt-makers in Edinburgh they say to get the accurate length the client kneels on the ground and they measure from naval down to hovering just above the ground.

I think, once again, the length of the kilt is personal preference. Where you feel good with it. Not higher than an inch above the kneecap and not lower than the bottom of the kneecap (simply because that looks funny, not right, bad or as was quoted in one well known book trollopy!).

[Tobus]

Yeah, we've had many discussions here on the "proper" height of the kilt in relation to the knee. Opinions vary greatly. But in general, here is what I have observed:

1. Our native Highlanders generally recommend wearing it with the kilt somewhere between the middle of the kneecap and the top of the knee (with their preferences trending more towards the top of the knee).

2. Military kilt-wearing standards dictate that the top of the knee is the correct height.

3. Historic paintings/portraits/photographs from the 1700s through at least the mid-1900s (and many later ones showing native Highlanders) tend to uniformly depict kilts towards the top of the knee. Sometimes even higher than that.

4. Wearing the kilt at the middle of the knee or lower seems to be mostly an American trend, especially with the more modern/contemporary (i.e. non-Scottish) style kilts, and seems to echo the current fashion trends of wearing shorts below the knee. I may be incorrect here, but it seems that there is a new crop of kilt-wearers in Scotland who are following this trend, such as the "Tartan Army" and lots of Lowlanders who, like Americans, may not have grown up with a strong kilt-wearing tradition. This may be leading to new traditions evolving with a new kilt-wearing culture which do not mesh with older Highland traditions.

Personally, I have observed that kilt-hire shops do not tend to give advice that gels with more established kilt-wearing traditions. That, too, has been the subject of many discussions on this forum. I think kilt-hire shops are kind of "out there on their own", attempting to reinvent tradition. But at the end of the day, it's up to you to make the decision on what you think looks best. My only advice would be to take a look at older, more traditional examples of kilt-wearing and compare it to the newer fashion trends. Experiment with your own look, and let it evolve over time.

[MacRobert's Reply]

Our native Highlanders generally recommend wearing it with the kilt somewhere between the middle of the kneecap and the top of the knee (with their preferences trending more towards the top of the knee).

Those who grew up wearing the kilt in Scotland are likely to agree. The concomitant issue is the height of the hose which may be incorrectly pulled up like football socks so that hose and kilt almost meet. You will see experienced native kilt wearers with the top of the hose three or three and a half inches below the centre of the knee cap. Knees are definitely to be seen!