interesting London Scottish cantle system

[OC Richard]

does anyone know if these were specified by the Regiment this way or was it one officer's clever idea that other officers liked and copied?

Since it's the Army, I would assume that all officers of the regiment wore the same style.

Here's a photo of some officers and you can clearly see the beehive knob at the top

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/gallery/...ndon-scottish/

I really do wonder how those cantles were made, tho the cantle seems so thin that it would have to be leather sewn over sheet metal, I suppose. Well, one of us will have to buy one the next time one comes up on Ebay, so we can dissect the thing! (Well, metaphorically...)

[artificer]

Agreed. Especially considering our recent conversation about horse hair sporrans on brass MoD cantles. If they can do it as shown above, surely a brass cantle could be made to work with a hair sporran? But even if you were to just make a replica of what we see above, it would still be awesome.

Unfortunately, I don't believe this is full storage (in the way the MoD cantles w/soft sack are). I need one more picture to be certain, but if I'm right in my guess the storage area only extends to the hinge (basically making this a coin purse) or is at best flat- there is no side gusset, so the only thing that you'd want to store in it would be paper (orders/ letters-pix from home) as you'd never be able to reach to the bottom for small items.

I found this picture in another old auction.


You can see that there is no space for a hand to get in past the hinge. What I don't know is whether or not the area at the hinge is just a 'fold' with very little extra depth or extends into the body.

I did spend a bit of time yesterday and now have a working drawing, parts list, and order-of-assembly (trust me, definitely something you need on certain sporrans )
One more picture would solidify the two remaining questions I have.

I can also say that these are all horsehair as well, no goat hair "underbody" (at least not on the 2 auction pieces I've seen pictures of)

It'll be some time before I actually get to make one of these, as November is already completely booked, but I am very excited about this sporran style.

[OC Richard]

You can see that there is no space for a hand to get in past the hinge.

Personally, the jury is still out until I actually handle one of these sporrans, because many of the old sporrans I've owned over the years look precisely like that when you open them, tho they do have a fullsize pocket. It's just that the leather of the two sides tends to press together there. On the other hand, I've never owned or examined a vintage sporran where the pocket suddenly ended there like that. (Tho it sure does look like the pocket ends there, doesn't it?)

[tundramanq]

I am liking the leather cover on the cantle. Giving me ideas on a great looking less flashy HH. Maybe leather over the tassle tops also would get my HH closer to "western Celtic casual". Rein in this go big piece a bit.

You know if the cantle hinges extended down further than the hard leather plates or was double hinged ( oops - hard plate alignment issues here) it would allow a nice opening into a bag below - Hmm - more thought and experiments coming.

[artificer]

Since it's the Army, I would assume that all officers of the regiment wore the same style.

Here's a photo of some officers and you can clearly see the beehive knob at the top

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/gallery/...ndon-scottish/

I really do wonder how those cantles were made, tho the cantle seems so thin that it would have to be leather sewn over sheet metal, I suppose. Well, one of us will have to buy one the next time one comes up on Ebay, so we can dissect the thing! (Well, metaphorically...)

I'm almost 100% certain that this is the case. In my original post I said that there is no way leather of any sort would hold it's shape over time with the spring latch pulling on it. It COULD be stiffened/lacquered, but that's not a long term solution.

In mentally dissecting this and how the interior/hinge section is built, how the stitching is laid, etc, and in a few quick experiments yesterday, I'm willing to be real money there are several metal pieces used in these.

It wouldn't be the first time the British Army has changed completely (or at least covered) one material with/for another to make officers less visible. Officers in WW1 sometimes had their harnesses (Sam Browne) made in canvas so they would be less distinctive.

Personally, the jury is still out until I actually handle one of these sporrans, because many of the old sporrans I've owned over the years look precisely like that when you open them, tho they do have a fullsize pocket. It's just that the leather of the two sides tends to press together there. On the other hand, I've never owned or examined a vintage sporran where the pocket suddenly ended there like that. (Tho it sure does look like the pocket ends there, doesn't it?)

It may have a full depth pocket, but if you look at the above picture (and a rear picture) it doesn't appear that there is a gusset below the webbed hinge. I imagine that we'd see some of it billow out when opened. I also don't know how you'd maintain proper structure / alignment of the hinge without a pinch point at the base of the hinge (which it has) which would limit the practicality of any gusset below that point.


I'd dearly love to handle one of these as well. So much fun, detective/conjecture on these old pieces.
ith:

[Tam Piperson]

There was one on ebay like this (with the metal knob on the top) last week. Unfortunately it seems to have already been sold as I wasn't able to locate it when I went back to look for it. It wasn't in as nice a condition as the one pictured in this thread however and it was fairly expensive as I recall.

[Downunder Kilt]

I agree with you Artificer that the sporran only appears o have a coin purse size pocket, the leather on the face and rear appears to be too stiff to allow a hand to go beyond the hinge area. To allow a full pocket to be implemented I would imagine that the hinges would have to be of a style of the MoD "Culloden" ones, longer arms (perhaps without the knobs) and the rear hard leather be replaced by a soft leather with soft leather gusset. From your other recent thread I realise that the front had to be of a hard leather. If I come across any other photos or info I will shoot them over to you.

[Destin_scot]

Atificer, when you get around to designing it I know we would ALL want to see the result. I'm sure you could redesign the cantle such that the sporran would have adequate storage.