Call me frugal, call me cheep

**Pleater** · 23rd September 12, 04:16 AM

Originally Posted by madmacs

What's the price of a pair of shoes again? $40 for cheap imported glued ones, or $300 for a pair of domestic stitched ones?

Ah - thank you for the price comparison.

I used to visit a garage where there was a comment on the seeking after a lower price - I wish I could remember it clearly - it warned that there will always be someone prepared to do the work for less, and that the person seeking them was their lawful prey.

In my field of designer knitwear I am always being asked how long it took me to knit an item - never how long the project was. Sometimes the entire process of creating the item takes less time than finding out exactly what is to be made.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

**matt.mackinnon** · 23rd September 12, 06:08 AM

My comment is not about price. Lets just get that clear from the top. It was about getting value for the money.

I have no problem paying good money for a well designed and beautifully crafted item. In my original post, I did start off with the sporran, but it would apply more to the belt as that plays more to the point with it's simplicity and non value.

I have seen some incredibly beautiful works of art both in stores, online and here in this forum. You do need to pay for the craftsman. I know as I make items out of wood. I have some pens that I was selling for $120. It's a pen, and some have commented that I can buy a package of plastic bic pens and get 24 for $3-4. Yes, that is true if all you are looking for is something to write with. I too have to charge for research and travel to get some of the exotic woods I use, and for wastage where I can pay $60 for a large chunck of wood that will yield 1 or 2 pens with 99% left over waste.

My comment was more directed to a generic sporran and belt that has no artistic merit, that is just a cutout and sew, and no time has been put into thought, design or execution. Sometimes you just need something based on a price point. I needed a sporran and belt as I have just bought my first kilt. I did purchase the belt strap and a buckle from the store. It struck me that I paid almost as much for the run of leather as i did for the crafted and detailed buckle. I just couldn't bring myself to pay the amount asked for a simple sporran so I went home and bought one off ebay. I would have loved one of the $300 sporrans as they looked worth the money asked. But my bank account could not support such extravagance right now considering the outlay of cash to Keltoi. I am on the list with John and am gladly paying his price as I know I am getting value for the money being spent.

I am glad that there are fine craftmen and women out there producing good works of art by hand.. all unique and well worth what is being asked. I just wished there were some less expensive options for us starting off.

**RockyR** · 23rd September 12, 06:28 AM

The problem is the 'walmart effect'. The more cheaply made import sporrans that come to market, the more it pushes the low end price point down. That sets customer expectations on price (leaving the 'quality issue' aside for a moment) down. It polarizes customers into those who want to shop on price vs. those who want to shop on quality. People who want quality will pay a much higher price for it and search out high quality (and generally higher priced) goods. People who want price will search for the cheapest one. It broadens the gap and the artisans in the middle (who offer a reasonable price on a reasonable quality product) suffer.

I'm not saying that people just getting into kilt wearing need to necessarily spend $1200 + on a full outfit right off the bat, but they REALLY must be careful to buy from reputable vendors with reasonable quality goods. In the higher end of the market, there are "better and lessor" quality goods, but the difference would probably be negligible to a newbie. In the lower end of the market where quality can be spotty at best, one must be very careful.

**Nick the DSM** · 23rd September 12, 04:39 PM

I paid close to $70 for a rob roy styled sporran made by an xmarks member. I used to have a $30 plain sporran, made of cheap leather, and I was happy to pay 70 for the rob roy sporran. I know what you mean by that a plain one shouldn't be so much, but it's where you look. In my opinion, find one of awesome hobbyists to make one, the money will be worth it, heck, maybe even trade partially if money is tight. Give them the leather, closures, etc. The one thing you can't forget about spending money is "will you be happy after the purchase?"

**Tobus** · 24th September 12, 05:39 AM

Originally Posted by matt.mackinnon

I am glad that there are fine craftmen and women out there producing good works of art by hand.. all unique and well worth what is being asked. I just wished there were some less expensive options for us starting off.

Actually, there are. If you search around, or ask for advice, people can point you to places that sell 'budget accessories'. The quality, of course, will be pretty low. So these are not the types of places that we tend to talk about all the time or post rave reviews on. But for someone just starting out and trying to wade cautiously into all of this, it's a decent way to get kitted out without breaking the bank. Then you can trade your starter accessories out later and work your way up the quality scale.

And of course, as you mentioned, eBay is also a good resource. Lots of cheap stuff on there, if all you're looking for is to just get something to wear without any expectation of quality. But you can also occasionally find a very high quality item at a real bargain, if you know what you're looking for.

**RockyR** · 24th September 12, 06:11 AM

There's also the "for sale" section up here on Xmarks...

**opositive** · 24th September 12, 09:11 AM

most of kilt stuff i have came from either the for sale section or from ebay (the only new kilt i have came from usak-and that is a casual). after hanging out here for a while, you can get a pretty good eye and also know what questions to ask a seller. in the for sale section, i love it when members either drink too much beer or decide to stop drinking beer. on ebay, i have bought at a huge discount a couple of second hand wool kilts from people who wore them a couple of times then let them sit in the closet.

at the same time, most of the money i have wasted was also on ebay. i rushed in too quickly in the beginning of this addiction and might have well have poured gravy over a wad of cash and given it to my dogs (who already do an adequate job of consuming my money as it is). getting burned a couple of times taught me to have more patience and be more circumspect.

well made kilts, sporrans, buckles, belts, etc. are wearable works of art. art is not cheap. but every so often a picasso can be found at a garage sale.

**Braw Cathairneach** · 9th November 12, 05:55 AM

Originally Posted by creagdhubh

Ain't that the truth!

Some of my young nieces are quite adept at sewing fur products in their Yupik-Eskimo tradition. It was early in their cottage industry business ventures that I discovered they were making less than minimum wage. I advised them to restructure their pricing by beginning with what they thought a fair wage is for any other work they might do then factor in a value-added increase for their unique artistry. I further advised them to include a mark-up for the cost of any furs that they purchase. Finally include any other business costs they might incur, shipping, utilities, delivery costs, etc. Going the way they were was sure to frustrate them with so little return on their effort and investment.

The result is that they began to enjoy what they were doing. They weren’t getting rich off their fur-sewing, but it removed the frustration of doing it for less than minimum wage. After implementing my price restructuring advice their spare time commission work provided more satisfaction and was equally fair to their clientele.

Never commissioned them to build a sporran for me yet, but may ask one of my granddaughter’s to do so as she develops her Yupik-Eskimo fur-sewing skills.

~ My two cents worth…

Proud Uncle & Grandfather

**Geoff Withnell** · 9th November 12, 06:08 AM

If you want to buy oats, and you want clean fresh oats, you must be prepared to pay a fair price. Oats that have been through the horse once come a little cheaper....

**Thomas H** · 9th November 12, 06:29 AM

Originally Posted by Braw Cathairneach

Some of my young nieces are quite adept at sewing fur products in their Yupik-Eskimo tradition. It was early in their cottage industry business ventures that I discovered they were making less than minimum wage. I advised them to restructure their pricing by beginning with what they thought a fair wage is for any other work they might do then factor in a value-added increase for their unique artistry. I further advised them to include a mark-up for the cost of any furs that they purchase. Finally include any other business costs they might incur, shipping, utilities, delivery costs, etc. Going the way they were was sure to frustrate them with so little return on their effort and investment.

The result is that they began to enjoy what they were doing. They weren’t getting rich off their fur-sewing, but it removed the frustration of doing it for less than minimum wage. After implementing my price restructuring advice their spare time commission work provided more satisfaction and was equally fair to their clientele.

Never commissioned them to build a sporran for me yet, but may ask one of my granddaughter’s to do so as she develops her Yupik-Eskimo fur-sewing skills.

~ My two cents worth…

Proud Uncle & Grandfather

you should put some of there work on the forum, here for sell - I would be interested