"New" Clan MacTavish Dress Tartan

[creagdhubh]

MacRobert,

Calling a tartan a "dress" tartan does not imply that it is meant for formal wear. It generally refers to a tartan which has much more white in the design (though there are exceptions). Indeed, one could wear the Hunting Robertson to a formal event just as readily as the red Robertson tartan.

The STM has this handy little sheet available for download and photocopy which deals with these confusing tartan terms.
http://scottishtartans.org/downloads...eet_colors.pdf

***

And much of the decision of which particular colour scheme of tartan to wear, say for a formal event, can largely depend upon clan traditions - just as it is in the case of the Clan Macpherson. The majority of men and women amongst the Clan Macpherson, prefer to wear the Macpherson 'dress' tartan for black-tie events, yet it is perfectly acceptable to wear any of the other Macpherson tartans, and many do.

Cheers,

[figheadair]

I see. It must have been this photo from a Scottish Tartans Museum display that gave me the impression that it was:

Using something in a particular way to demonstrate a concept does not necessarily mean that that was the original use of that piece. Similarly, putting a kilt on a museum manikin the wrong way around doesn't mean that's how kilts were worn then.



In the case of the CY blanket there is no evidence that it was ever worn, nor is its weight or structure consistent with its use as clothing.

[Dixiecat]

Arisaid and dress tartans are similar but not the same. The latter have their origins in the former but true arisaid setts have their origins in domestic blanket setts and allegedly women's wear. They were not white versions of clan tartans, which of course didn't exist in the C18th, but something completely different as can be seen from the examples in Figs 8 and 9 here. The exception to this difference is possibly what is now called Dress MacPherson which may originally actually have been a blanket pattern.



Dress setts were not invented by Queen Victoria but did come about during her early reign and seem to have been the invention of the Sobieski Stuarts although they did not use the term 'dress'. They included a white version of the (Royal) Stuart which they called 'Victoria', presumably to curry favour with the establishment that they aspired to join.

Thank you Peter.

The misinformation about white based tartans out on the web and even promulgated by some members here is astounding. It's good to have your voice on the subject.

[Dixiecat]

I believe that is a question which only you can answer, Jock. Best of luck with that.

There are many instances of Scots in the colonies and elsewhere dispersed doing things slightly differently than they are done in the Highlands. This very forum contains a plethora of discussions of examples. Due to many factors such as climatic and general cultural differences, this stands to reason. I am not convinced that these differences always constitute a "muddle", nor any particular problem.

I am no expert, to be sure, but I believe that here in the US, in at least some competitions, dancers are required to wear "dress" tartans, at least for any kind of serious consideration. I have no idea whether this rule applies at competitions in Scotland. The girls of our small clan have had to heretofore wear the "dress" tartan of another clan in order to compete. Our Chief has remedied that situation, with my gratitude.

As for highland dancing, here in the 'colonies' we don't do anything different than they do in Scotland and your assumption that dancers in the US are required to wear dress tartans is completely wrong. All dancers who compete under the auspices of the SOBHD (Scottish Official Board of Highland Dance) follow their dress code which states that the dancer (both male and female) should wear ANY clan, family or district tartan. The SOBHD is the only recognized highland dance organization for any competing dancer in North America and most dancers in Scotland and the rest of the dancers in Scotland who dance under SOHDA follow the same dress code.

Dancers are only required to wear a tartan kilt. White-based tartans have become the norm, but only in the last 20years.

[David Thorpe]

Thank you for that information. I (wrongly) assumed that white-based tartans were required, since the overwhelming majority of girls wear them. If not a rule per se, is this not a de facto standard nonetheless? I suppose a beauty pageant contestant could wear black lipstick, but would it not likely effectively bar her from consideration for a win?

[Dixiecat]

Thank you for that information. I (wrongly) assumed that white-based tartans were required, since the overwhelming majority of girls wear them. If not a rule per se, is this not a de facto standard nonetheless? I suppose a beauty pageant contestant could wear black lipstick, but would it not likely effectively bar her from consideration for a win?

No, it's not even a 'de facto' standard. It's any clan, district or family tartan. No judge would EVER consider marking down or disqualifying any dancer with a non-white based tartan. That would go against the very tradition and heart of highland dance.

[Mark Stephenson]

No, it's not even a 'de facto' standard. It's any clan, district or family tartan. No judge would EVER consider marking down or disqualifying any dancer with a non-white based tartan. That would go against the very tradition and heart of highland dance.

Last night at our local St. Andrew's Ball, I asked a well-known Highland Dance judge about what is required. She confirmed that while a "dress tartan" is NOT required, there is a rather strong convention regarding the wear of a "dress tartan". Persons who choose not to wear a "dress tartan" would definitely stand out - which would not necessarily be a good thing or a bad thing.

[Dixiecat]

Last night at our local St. Andrew's Ball, I asked a well-known Highland Dance judge about what is required. She confirmed that while a "dress tartan" is NOT required, there is a rather strong convention regarding the wear of a "dress tartan". Persons who choose not to wear a "dress tartan" would definitely stand out - which would not necessarily be a good thing or a bad thing.

There is a strong convention for wearing dress tartans for highland dance, but I can't stress it highly enough that NOT wearing a dress tartan is not a bar to winning or placing at competitions.

You don't need the judge to confirm it. The dress code guidelines are available for anyone to read:
http://www.sobhd.net/downloads/files...2002.08.12.pdf

[David Thorpe]

When was the last time you saw a dancer wearing a non-white-based tartan win a competition? And how often?

[Dixiecat]

I wear a non-white tartan, Drummond of Perth, so that would be Stone Mountain, October 18th the last time I was at a comp. My dance classmate wears Dress Turnbull (she regularly competes, latest was this last weekend and got several 1sts/2nds) and several other dancers in the Maritimes wear regular tartans (whom I've seen over the last year).

David, I haven't said that white-based tartans are not currently the norm, we're in total agreement. And, yes, a regular tartan does stand out. What I have disagreed about quite strongly is that people seem to think that a dancer HAS to wear a white-based dress tartan or that if a dancer doesn't then that dancer wouldn't be in the running to win or place at a competition. For instance, there's quite a few dancers wearing loud MacLeod tartans. Are you actually saying that those dancers who wear the MacLeod tartans should be barred from placing or winning? A judge who did so would be up for sanctions by the SOBHD!

Believe me, we have had judges who have posted on the dance group forum who've answered questions about issues like these and have said that they're too busy looking at the FEET to be worried about which tartan the dancer is wearing.