Where to find thread count?

[TheBrus]

I would like to find out where I can find thread counts for various tartans. Specifically looking for New Bruce (Grant) tartan. Any ideas?

JDB

[Paul Henry]

It's not absolutely fool proof , but a good start is the Register you have to sign up for it, but it is free , and very useful!
Select your tartan, and then there is an option to get the threadcount emailled to you

I would like to find out where I can find thread counts for various tartans. Specifically looking for New Bruce (Grant) tartan. Any ideas?

JDB

[TheBrus]

Thanks!

[figheadair]

As Paul said, the STR is a good starting place but beware, their counts are often generic so it depends on what you want. If you want historical counts then I recommend joining the Tartans Authority and/or buying a descent book such as D. C. Stewart's 'Setts of the Scottish Tartans' (albeit that many counts in there are generic too. Many of Wilsons' counts (including their New Bruce) are available in my '1819 Key Pattern Book - One Hundred Original Tartans' which you can get from Matt at the Tartans Museum.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

You can also email the Scottish Tartans Museum and request a thread count for a particular tartan. It helps to be specific, such as providing the STA reference number, or giving other information about which one you want. If you just ask for "Grant" you are likely to get something generic, which may be fine depending on what you are needing it for.

If this is the sort of thing you are going to need on a frequent basis, I would also recommend becoming a member of the STA so you can have full access to their thread count, and/or signing up with the National Register to be able to request thread counts from them.

In addition to Peter's book, and The Setts of the Scottish Tartans which he recommended, I would also suggest Jamie Scarlett's Tartan: The Highland Textile as a good source for threadcounts. It is an updated version of The Setts.

[TheBrus]

Not something I need frequently. The New Bruce was the most immediate need. I'm not sure what "generic" means... I signed up to the Scottish Tartans Registry, and I did notice, for instance, a difference in thread count for Bruce clan tartan (VS) between Wikipedia and STR. It wasn't a huge difference, but it was different. I think I already found what I needed--check out pics below--but I was thinking of (one day) having the variant I devised made into a kilt. I merely reversed the red and green in New Bruce, kind of like Bruce/Hunting Bruce. I was pleased with the effect.

JDB

Here is New Bruce tartan 1385:



Here is my variant Hunting New Bruce tartan:

[English Bloke]

The photo above illustrates Bruce Hunting (DC Dalgliesh 15oz - right) against Bruce Modern (Lochcarron 16oz - left) I think inverting the red and the green works well and would work similarly with your variant of Grant / New Bruce (Hunting?).

Interestingly, the Bruce Hunting which was first designed in 1939 (Ref 1816) and with this example produced true to STA thread count in 2010.


You will note it has black guard lines on the white and yellow over-stripes making it an inversion of the Bruce Chiefly Sett (Ref 1821) and not the Bruce Vestiarium Scoticum (shown above for comparison - Ref 1848), that being a tartan brought to us by those nice chaps the Allen brothers.

To this end, it's not a true comparison, but near enough, even allowing for weavers variations in colour selection and sett size.

They are both beautiful Kilts by the way...

Incidentally. The DC Dalgliesh fabric is as near as nick-it, a match to the colours displayed on the STA website.

[TheBrus]

John, 100% correct: yours are beautiful kilts. And it was your Hunting Bruce kilt that was actually the inspiration for my thoughts on inverting the red/green in New Bruce.

[figheadair]

I'm not sure what "generic" means... I signed up to the Scottish Tartans Registry, and I did notice, for instance, a difference in thread count for Bruce clan tartan (VS) between Wikipedia and STR. It wasn't a huge difference, but it was different.

By generic I mean minimum count per colour to render the sett proportionally. For example; here's Stewart's count from his Setts and below is the original 1819 Count.

R/6 B2 R4 B4 R64 LB2 R4 B16 R4 G4 R4 G48 R4 B4 R/6 - Setts
R/15 B2 R4 B4 R156 LB2 R4 B42 R6 G4 R6 G178 R4 B4 R/10 - 1819 KPB


Comparison of the counts shows that Stewart reduced the ratio of the large red and green grounds in relation to the blue band and that his blue band was proportionally much larger than the surrounding finer stripes. Stewart also equalised the pivots and made them smaller. The overall effect Stewart created was a much ruduced and busier setting.

[TheBrus]

Thanks for the explanation. I ran this through the ScotWeb tartan design tool, and the difference was remarkable. Why such a difference? Does this account for different sett sizes?

JDB