Scottish outlook on kilted Americans?

[sailortats]

This was a nice simple question asked of Scots folk and answered in pretty much the same way by all of us, no matter that some from offshore differ or wish to cause dissention. We like you to wear the kilt; the kilt is a symbol of Scotland; wear it with pride; don't make a costume of it; be respectful of its heritage; come home often and ignore the wee loons who are green with envy.

Highland dress is not a political statement.

my first ever ***

[slohairt]

The preservation of Scotland's legal system was expressly written into the Treaty of Union and there are procedural differences in how the Christian religion is practised in the Church of Scotland compared with the Church of England. Also as Phil says, an entirely different educational structure.
Scots people regard Scotland as a nation, some would like full independence, others would prefer to stay within the United Kingdom, but we won't go down the route of discussing politics. Geographically Scotland is very different from England, having almost similar land mass yet only around one eleventh of the population compared to its neighbour.
I think the situation here in Scotland is different from Canada, with the possible exception of Quebec which seems form my perspective to have its own distinct language and culture.

Québec certainly does have its own unique culture, but a better analogy would be the province of Newfoundland. Prior to joining Confederation in 1949, they were a separate Dominion, much like Canada itself. (Albeit with a suspended government.)

Then again, this thread is supposed to be about Scots and Americans, not Canadians!

Back to your regular scheduled programming...

[CMcG]

Just for clarification you are stating this as it applies today, correct? Not some type of legal prohibition correct?
I ask this, not delving into any political discussion, but simply as a matter of fact because in terms of EU membership this issue seems open to debate.

Correct, sir.

This was a nice simple question asked of Scots folk and answered in pretty much the same way by all of us, no matter that some from offshore differ or wish to cause dissention. We like you to wear the kilt; the kilt is a symbol of Scotland; wear it with pride; don't make a costume of it; be respectful of its heritage; come home often and ignore the wee loons who are green with envy.

Highland dress is not a political statement.

I've no wish to cause dissension and, in response to the original question, was just summarizing a variety of viewpoints I have encountered. I see now that I should have left out my own commentary on those viewpoints, some of which are touchy enough without adding fuel to the fire

Sorry, folks.

[O'Callaghan]

Dang it all Neloon, you are making me think and I am not good at that this early in the morning. I think, for the first time, I understand more fully how the native Scots feel about those, like myself, outwith Scotland wearing the kilt.
I am a huge fan of C&W music, have been all my life, and although I might enjoy the song the farmer from Auchnagatt or the fisherman from Buckie wrote, I would know in the back of my mind that it was not truly authentic. But then not all of our USA C&W music is what can be called authentic. Much of it being written by people that have never come close to experiencing what they have written about.
And I have to add that I don't think most Americans think of a Utilikilt as being scottiish.

I was amazed to discover that Country and Western is highly popular in the Gaeltacht, the Western part of Ireland where they speak Irish. That was nothing compared to the discovery that bands in that region have recorded versions of many popular C&W records IN IRISH! I am not talking about dialect, I mean they have recorded versions of American C&W songs "as Gaelige". You can find these on YouTube.

[neloon]

This was a nice simple question asked of Scots folk and answered in pretty much the same way by all of us, no matter that some from offshore differ or wish to cause dissention. We like you to wear the kilt; the kilt is a symbol of Scotland; wear it with pride; don't make a costume of it; be respectful of its heritage; come home often and ignore the wee loons who are green with envy.

Highland dress is not a political statement.

Agreed almost 100%. However, within Scotland at the present moment, nearly everything said or done is a political statement.

[David Thorpe]

my first ever ***

I'll drink to that.

[OC Richard]

There is a saying here in Scotland that a kilt is a garment worn by Scots only while in North America and only worn by North Americans in Scotland.

Ha! That's brilliant!

Things like that are why I didn't, for a moment, consider bringing a kilt when I've travelled in Scotland. That, and all that stuff takes up valuable suitcase space. (I'm a notoriously "light packer" when I travel, two weeks' worth of clothes in a single small carryon is how I go.)

And on the flipside, yes, Scots here tend to "fly the flag" a bit. There's a Scottish pastor here who often preaches in kilts. Not sure if he would do so back home.

My exception is that when our Pipe Band goes to Scotland to compete, obviously we need to bring our band uniform, but none of us wear it at any time other than when the band is competing or performing.

About Scots doing "American" things such as performing Country music, I'll admit I was quite taken aback, during by first trip to Scotland in 1986, when my wife and I, in Oban, went to a bar upstairs to see a local group perform. They had a fiddle, accordion, and keyboard and played lovely Scottish reels, strathspeys, and jigs. BUT when the young lady keyboardist sang Scottish songs she did so in a bizarre fake Southern US accent! We shook our heads thinking "why oh why?"

That kind of thing has been around a long time. People don't even pay attention to it, but The Beatles for example sung many of their songs in a mild fake Southern US accent rather than their own. Being raised in a community where everyone spoke in broad Appalachian accents, I have a radar that goes off whenever "outsiders" do fake accents.

About "Country Roads", something of a Sacred Anthem in my native West Virginia, I was talking to an older couple one day from rural Ireland who said that that song is strongly sentimental to them. Oh the power of music to transcend time and place!

[Peter Crowe]

This was a nice simple question asked of Scots folk and answered in pretty much the same way by all of us, no matter that some from offshore differ or wish to cause dissention. We like you to wear the kilt; the kilt is a symbol of Scotland; wear it with pride; don't make a costume of it; be respectful of its heritage; come home often and ignore the wee loons who are green with envy.

Highland dress is not a political statement.

Well said Rex!

[Phil]

Apologies, I did not mean any offence and I'm not trying to "diminish Scotland and the Scots," but rather to point out my confusion regarding a point of view held by some Scots. This conundrum is that there are Scots who think that Scotland's national attire should only be worn by the people of a nation that is not a nation, in the common sense of that word

Perhaps I could point you here - http://geography.about.com/cs/politi...tatenation.htm - and in particular the reference "Nations are culturally homogeneous groups of people, larger than a single tribe or community, which share a common language, institutions, religion, and historical experience."
This is obviously not your understanding but is, I believe, the commonly held interpretation. Various native American tribes are referred to as "nations" for example as are other groups who share a common culture and background.
While I accept your statement that you didn't mean any offence, it is just this type of remark, made in ignorance or otherwise, that causes great offence to Scottish people. To refer to our proud nation as a "region" in the same way that Calgary or the Rockies might be regarded as a region of Alberta is not only incorrect but deeply offensive.

[CMcG]

Perhaps I could point you here - http://geography.about.com/cs/politi...tatenation.htm - and in particular the reference "Nations are culturally homogeneous groups of people, larger than a single tribe or community, which share a common language, institutions, religion, and historical experience."
This is obviously not your understanding but is, I believe, the commonly held interpretation. Various native American tribes are referred to as "nations" for example as are other groups who share a common culture and background.
While I accept your statement that you didn't mean any offence, it is just this type of remark, made in ignorance or otherwise, that causes great offence to Scottish people. To refer to our proud nation as a "region" in the same way that Calgary or the Rockies might be regarded as a region of Alberta is not only incorrect but deeply offensive.

Actually, Phil, in the same post you quoted me from, I addressed your point about nations having more to do with culture than with politics. I also said that I see Scotland as a nation in that sense, so I don't disagree with you. In fact, you are supporting my point!

The link you posted clears up a few terms and is worth quoting a bit more of:

"While the terms country, state, and nation are often used interchangeably, there is a difference.

A State (note the capital "S") is a self-governing political entity. The term State can be used interchangeably with country.

A nation, however, is a tightly-knit group of people which share a common culture. A nation-state is a nation which has the same borders as a State."

My remarks about the lack of a Scottish State were meant to critique a position that some Scots hold, which suggests that being a Scot, and therefor having the sole right to wear the kilt, is defined by citizenship and geo-political boundaries, rather than culture, history, language, etc. I was basically deconstructing the aporia of a position that conflates national attire with citizenship, because this is mixing the meaning of nation and State. An extreme example of the position that causes me so much confusion is when I have had Scots suggest that if another Scot (born and raised) should emigrate and change their citizenship, they lose the right to wear the kilt

A nation is not defined by borders or citizenship, ergo neither should national attire.