Scottish outlook on kilted Americans?

**Phil** · 2nd December 12, 03:00 AM

Originally Posted by neloon

By the way, did I cease to be a Scot during the 6 years I lived in England?

I suppose that would very much depend on your attitude during that time. In reality, however, this whole subject has more to do with those individuals who try to assert a spurious Scottish background as a justification for wearing a garment that they probably feel very uncomfortable wearing without this justification. I can well imagine their reaction when asked "Gee, why are you wearing a skirt?" They could tell the truth which may be one of a whole range of reasons from a penchant for cross-dressing at one extreme to a simple admiration for this type of dress. Rather than go into such convoluted explanations, however, it is probably easier to just say it is to honour their Scottish heritage without, of course, mentioning that it was their adoptive grandfather's third cousin in Milwaukee who once lived next door to a man from Indiana who told him his granny was from Scotland.

**David Thorpe** · 2nd December 12, 03:04 AM

No True Scotsman.

**Jock Scot** · 2nd December 12, 03:06 AM

Tuirc.

A good person is a good person wherever in the world they come from and even if they have Scots DNA coursing through their veins that does not necessarily make them a Scot!

The same goes, a Scot would say anyway, for those Bolivians with American DNA that does not make them Americans, they are Bolivians with roots in America---------------and if they so choose they can go further back, if the information is available. Like WE ALL can.

**Phil** · 2nd December 12, 03:18 AM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

A good person is a good person wherever in the world they come from and even if they have Scots DNA coursing through their veins that does not necessarily make them a Scot!

Well said, Jock, and something I couldn't agree with more. Why there should be this desire to pretend to be something they are not I find difficult to understand, particularly when some then feel competent to pontificate on matters they cannot possibly understand, coming from a quite different background and experience. Certainly a little knowledge can be gleaned from books or Wikipedia pages but quite how reliable such sources are is not always clear. They do say that "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing".

**MacGumerait** · 2nd December 12, 03:36 AM

Originally Posted by Phil

If you sup with the devil ... as the saying goes. But then you are suggesting that the contributors to this thread may be in some way diabolical or fiendish. I don't think so and I do think that a healthy discussion such as this does help to clear up some of the misapprehensions that exist.
Hopefully now everyone will understand that Scotland is not a region of England but is, in fact, a historic nation with its own distinctive culture, laws, religion. education and, once again after a gap of 300 years its own Parliament.
Perhaps they will also understand, as Jock has helpfully contributed, that irrespective of genealogy, DNA testing or any other "evidence", if they don't live in and breathe the air of Scotland they are not and cannot ever be - SCOTS. That is not to say they will not be welcomed as visitors and shown every courtesy while wearing kilts. Scots are an inclusive people, however, and anyone coming to settle here will be embraced and included as Scots just as so many have in the past.

I am not suggesting that contributors to this thread are fiendish or diabolical , I am just saying that this topic has been beaten to death over the years and I personally didn't wish to touch it with a 10 ' pole , no more , no less .

**neloon** · 2nd December 12, 03:38 AM

Originally Posted by Phil

some then feel competent to pontificate on matters they cannot possibly understand

"We shall continue to shed the American light upon the World" (President Obama)

**MacGumerait** · 2nd December 12, 03:45 AM

Originally Posted by neloon

"We shall continue to shed the American light upon the World" (President Obama)

And where is that coming from ??

**Jock Scot** · 2nd December 12, 04:10 AM

Originally Posted by neloon

"We shall continue to shed the American light upon the World" (President Obama)

Assuming the President is being quoted correctly, a comment like that worries the heck out of me!

Don't get me wrong, the world has much to be grateful for from the the United States of America, but------------------------

**Tuirc** · 2nd December 12, 04:21 AM

@Jock I don't think anything was said by me indicating one or another group of people were good or not good. Whether you have DNA that traces you back to Scotland or no, you still could be a rat bastard or kinder than Ghandi. In any case it wasn't my point.

I think you were perfectly consistent with what Phil said and as I pointed out in my post this is in fact what I see mostly on these types of boards. Also as I pointed out, a perfectly unassailable position if that's where you choose to draw the line.

@Phil I'm not exactly sure where you're coming from. I'm sure your statement is validated by some experience. But, for my part, in case your statement is in some way a response to mine, I'm an American of Scottish descent. I don't hyphenate nor do I pretend to be a Scot. I'm not of Scottish descent by the neighbor of my great aunt Fanny. I'm of direct descent and have taken the time and effort to know exactly where in Scotland my ancestors lived and to some degree the circumstances and movements of them within Scotland back to 1590. And, further validated that knowledge with DNA. Having said that, that doesn't mean I know a fig about kilts or how to wear them. Therefore, I'm grateful for a forum like this where such knowledge transfer can take place. I also would place no claim on current day Scotland or even Scotland in the last two hundred years.

However, my ancestors were just as involved with the previous 1,200 years of Scottish history as yours (if yours have been there that long, certainly not claiming any knowledge of your background just assuming en arguendo that you have a long history there). So, just as I have family pride in my more recent ancestors and their deeds and accomplishments in the last two hundred years, I don't draw some artificial line and pretend that there was no "before immigration." There was, in fact, a before and that before was in Scotland and so I have pride in that fact too. When I wear my kilt, I'm acknowledging that I know where I come from and honoring that. That pride and those reasons stand apart from the current inhabitants of Scotland. They stand on their own and need no validation. Hopefully, my explanation will assist you in understanding to point of view of some of us, similarly situated in the diaspora. Or, maybe I'm all alone on my own island. I'm fine with that too.

**Jock Scot** · 2nd December 12, 04:36 AM

Tuirc.

You are missing my point and perhaps I should have made things more clear. I was trying to make the point that I and other Scots recognise that not everything in Scotland is perfect and those outwith Scotland are equally good, bad, indifferent, with or without Scots DNA, as those within Scotland. I was just trying to be tactfully even handed, before making my other point.