Scottish outlook on kilted Americans?

[Jock Scot]

I am curious to how folks from Scotland perceive kilt wearing Americans? My family line on my fathers side moved to America in the late 1700's and the late 1800's from Scotland, Ireland and Nova Scotia. My mothers line from Switzerland, Germany and England in the 1800's. Do Scots look down on someone like me that wears a Kilt for occasions and is not 100% Scottish and/or not born and raised in the UK?

Blimey Sushi, how much clearer can you get!? The title and the OP's post, and intention is pretty clear, I would say

[Downunder Kilt]

Jock you are quite right about the question being asked to folks from Scotland, but by the page two of the thread, that had gone out the window with non scots, questioning, responding and interpreting

[CDNSushi]

I'm sorry, Jock, but I just don't subscribe to the philosophy that you must belong to <group X> in order to answer a question about <group X>, whether that be a nation, culture, religion, political group, or otherwise. Never have, never will. Some of the most influential, intelligent, and profound insights and knowledge have come from outside sources and opinions.

[Phil]

I'm sorry, Jock, but I just don't subscribe to the philosophy that you must belong to <group X> in order to answer a question about <group X>, whether that be a nation, culture, religion, political group, or otherwise. Never have, never will. Some of the most influential, intelligent, and profound insights and knowledge have come from outside sources and opinions.

It might have been better if the OP had answered this particular question. Sushi's suggestion has a degree of "Let those who know best deal with this" and I agree with Jock - the original post is perfectly clear and unambiguous. There have been one or two contributions along the way in this thread that have touched upon this transatlantic urge to speak on behalf of others in a patronising and, supposedly, authoratitive way. Unfortunately all it calls to mind is impertinence unless it is couched in appropriate terms, admitting beforehand that the contributor has no actual first-hand personal experience of the subject he/she then goes on to pontificate about. At least in this way the reader will be aware that he/she is being fed a load of bull****.

[neloon]

I fear that, in places, we Scots may have let slip Scottish views of Americans per se rather than kilted Americans. Would we like Mr. Trump more - or less - if he wore a kilt as he tells the Scottish Government how to run Scotland? I think it is not easy for our American friends to understand how they are seen (?stereotyped) in the rest of the World and maybe this was the stimulus for the original question.

[MacSpadger]

I've been keeping away from the forum for a few days because there are things being posted here that I have found aggravating. The thread started well but some post have been made that simply come across to me as being very arrogant or deliberately obtuse. I have composed fairly lengthy replies to certain posts, but then realised that I am simply repeating myself from previous threads on this self same topic, so I deleted them without posting.

I think Steve Ashton's reply, this post here, sad though it may be to the ears of some, is probably the most pertinet to the original question, and I thank him for his blunt honesty. Steve is not a Scot, but he has visited here dressed in the kilt, so is in a position where he can give a detailed first hand reply to the OP. It might not be very pleasant reading to some, but there you go.

The population of Scotland is just over 5 million for the entire country. The population of the USA is well over 300 million.
Despite that, until fairly recent times, for a Scot the kilt and highland clothing was an instantly identifiable symbol of where a person was from, geographically. All that appears to be changing, and a lot of that seems to have to do with fashion, or simply because non-Scots like the look of it, or, as this this forum has led me to believe, some Americans simply like the attention they get while wearing one. The Scottish cultural aspect, no matter if it only goes back to the 1700's or early 1800's, seems to get considered an inconvenience, and, on this forum gets altered to suit the forum member's own views, (mythologising), or completely ignored.
No matter if it's real or not, there will always be the view of a big powerful wealthy country stealing the unique culture of a little country that historically has always struggled. This is currently heightened by the current Donald Trump affair, "Trumpgate", as he continually tells us how awful we are while buying up our land and "Americanising" it. But we have had the likes before when the oil was discovered in the 70's and we had the firsy US invasion. American townships sprang up with American shops, schools, churches, etc, all surrounded by high fences or walls. Like Trump's pleasure parks, Americans could visit Scotland and spend considerable time there without ever meeting a native Scot, unless, and here's the rub, kilted servants or pipers are hired for a bit of colour, (or, as Trump would spell, color). A divisive issue, even for the most welcoming of Scots, isn't it?

I am different from most Scots in that I wear the kilt more often, mainly due to the fact that I am a piper and belong to a several piping societies, a Gaelic society and a Regimental Association. If I didn't belong to these institutions, my kilt wearing would probably be reduced to weddings and the occasional céilidh. I am currently wearing the kilt three of four days a week, and I get away with it because of my forementioned associations. There is a guy who lives locally who wears the kilt regularly who is not a piper, not an ex-soldier and has no Gaelic. He is considered an attention seeking nutter, a wanna-be, a fake, a phony, a dreamer, a ne'er-do-well, a waster, etc. That's a Scottish viewpoint on another kilt wearing Scot, never mind the Scottish viewpoint on a similarly garbed American.

There's not much can be done about the international "borrowing" of our culture/dress, (as I say, we are only a little country, though we may have given much), but people like myself have accepted this as best we can and simply asked people to respect our culture to the best of their abilities. However, there is a political aspect to wearing the kilt at the moment, particularly in the run up to 2014, as Scotland grapples with it's own identity, and this forum's rules precludes discussion on this, and quite rightly so as I feel it's a matter that only tax paying native Scots will understand and we do have our own forums for such things.
I'd just like to reinstate a request that I have made previously: please don't equate our national dress to "blue jeans" or "New York Yankees caps", it means much, much more than that to us, and to do so greatly diminishes our culture and severely lessens the feeling of international friendship and co-operation that usually exists on this forum between Scot and non Scot.
Moderators, if I have stepped out of line here, I do apologise, feel free to censor, I do appreciate posting here is a privilige and not a right. Thanks.

[neloon]

MacSpadger,
Thank you for a brilliantly tactful contribution that said everything.
(However, as a 16/7 wearer of the kilt, I have to say that I have never felt that others see me as "an attention seeking nutter, a wanna-be, a fake, a phony, a dreamer, a ne'er-do-well, a waster, etc." so it may depend on individual personality - or maybe my ears are shut!)

[Domehead]

MacSpadger,
Hence why I re-state my original question...What do Scots feel about Scots Ex-pats whom export their cultural identity with their emigration?
"Kilting", for lack of a better term, was important to my Grandparents as a means by which to balance their new American adventure with the uniqueness of their individuality.
As I am the last in our family to "kilt" (some of the younger males wear family tartan vests; ladies in long tartan skirts) it is an important peice of our specific family history, but I am an American.

[neloon]

Domehead,
My only reason for not responding to your original question was your use of the phrase "who feel as Jock does" - which I don't.
I am very happy that your Grandparents espressed the longing for Scotland that I'm sure they felt by sporting tartan. And I am equally pleased that you feel able to at least partly identify with Scotland. Maybe you will not be "the last" in your family, so for just now you are a potential link to the future.

[pugcasso]

There is a guy who lives locally who wears the kilt regularly who is not a piper, not an ex-soldier and has no Gaelic. He is considered an attention seeking nutter, a wanna-be, a fake, a phony, a dreamer, a ne'er-do-well, a waster, etc. That's a Scottish viewpoint on another kilt wearing Scot, never mind the Scottish viewpoint on a similarly garbed American.

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I wasn't going to reply to this thread since it specifically asked about "Scottish" opinions and I'm Canadian but I feel when strong opinions are given, reactions should be expected. Although I respect your right to you opinion, I disagree that it represents all opinions of Scottish people. (further down, I will also relate the opinions of some visiting Scottish people who have talked to me in Halifax, Nova Scotia)


When you say "That's a Scottish viewpoint on another kilt wearing Scot", do you mean that is one Scottish person's view (ie, your own view) of another Scottish person or do you think this is the major consensus of Scottish people regarding kilt wearing (ie, someone who is not a piper, not a soldier or former soldier and has no Gaelic is an attention seeking nutter, a wanna-be, a fake, a phony, a dreamer, a ne'er-do-well, a waster, etc)? I don't know why you would judge this person with that list of detrimental qualities (perhaps there are reasons) but I would hope it is due to more than his not being a piper, not being ex soldier and not knowing enough Gaelic.

I assume from the other points mentioned that to wear a kit (in your opinion) , one must meet one or more or all) of these requirements?

1... be a piper,
2... a soldier or ex-soldier
3... know some Gaelic.

My question is to what degree are the above requirements needed to wear a kilt in your opinion? If someone can at least play some simple tune, can he wear the kilt? If someone knows a few Gaelic words, can he wear a kilt? How fluent does one have to be in order to wear a kilt (and why is that particular level required).

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Personally I think there are plenty of different views about people wearing kilts even from Scottish people. No matter what one does, there will be multiple views of it (some based on total ignorance of what it is and some based on very strongly held beliefs ~ in both cases, the person feels you are over-stepping some rule of society by wearing a kilt ... either they see you as a man wearing a skirt which breaks their social rules or the other sees you as wearing the kilt when you shouldn't be doing so which breaks their social rules). Here in Halifax, I've met some people visiting from Scotland and they said they liked seeing me wearing the kilt.

In one situation, I was just walking out of this small monument area (actually a sitting area around the statue of Robbie Burns) and this couple was just staring at me and had a peculiar look. They started talking to me and we talked for some time. They said I looked like I had just come out of history (haha although that wouldn't be due to any 'proper' historic attire I had on since I just wear clothes I like but which tend to be long shirts of earthy colours so maybe that's why). They where happy to see someone wearing a kilt while just doing daily things (I just came back from a long walk in the city's big foresty park).

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I just wonder if the kilt and related items had not been banned at one point in history and then re-established later (under controlled rules), would kilts today be considered nice clothing one wears doing their everyday walking about. More people today might wear a kilt as a normal thing to do.

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Of course, everyone is entitled to their points of view about people wearing kilts. I'm sure there are many people who have negative reactions seeing me (but probably keep it to themselves) ... I've had some highschool students yell out "nice skirt" in a derogatory tone as they stood around a school entrance in their modern MTV-inspired attire but I had one highschool student come up to me as I walked down the sidewalk and started talking about kilts (he was from Cape Breton). He was glad to see someone in a kilt.

A man the other day sitting on a bench in the mall gestured for me to come over and we started talking. He was also from Cape Breton of Scottish origin and liked that I was in a kilt and talked about wanting to get one himself (I told him about this forum and the list of kilt makers he might find helpful).


Personally I think it is a positive thing to wear the kilt as daily attire and I don't feel it is disrespectful at all. From my encounters with some visiting Scots I feel that at least some Scots liked seeing someone in a kilt who was not a piper, not a soldier and knows little Gaelic.