Backpacking In A Belted Plaid - A Question Revisited

[Clockwork]

Hello Rabble. I must admit that I've grown increasingly fond of the belted plaid/great kilt because of its great versatility; so much so, that I have ordered one which I hope may be used when backpacking/camping. I did a search on here to see if this topic had been discussed before, which yielded a thread with great points made regarding this idea.

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...d-plaid-72296/

There were some points made regarding less-than-ideal situations one might encounter when attempting this: fabric in the rear being uncomfortable or interfering with the backpack waist strap, and rain-soaked wool causing hypothermia if it becomes wet and not dried. These were good points I had not thought of when I conceived this idea. However, I did some thinking for solutions to these scenarios and was wondering if anyone has thoughts regarding the plausibility of them.

The first is bunched-up-fabric issue. Would it be possible to box pleat a great kilt instead if knife pleating it? This seems like it would eliminate any edges against the back and keep the bulk laying flat, possibly allowing a proper fit of the hip belt/support of the backpack while providing wearer comfort. A second step to this would be to use paracord or rope to secure the plaid instead of a belt, having it tied above or below the backpack hip support. Alternatively, a thin, flat nylon belt which secures by Velcro might work too. Woolsheal's ruck-sack idea is good too.

The next possible solution is aimed at the issues of a wet wool kilt. The wool tartan I ordered for my great kilt is of the House of Edgar Nevis line, which is treated with Teflon (PTFE). This should, in theory, repel water and therefore keep the kilt dry. Has anyone had experience with the HoE Nevis line? Does it work well at doing this, or does it have its limitations? An alternative/addition to this fabric could be a lightweight iverness cape, perhaps made of a waterproof nylon.

What are your thoughts on these things? My aim is to pack lightly and the great kilt seems to fit the bill, since it's a blanket and kilt all in one.

Cheers,
-Jake

[Woodsheal]

I reiterate my point from the other thread, in terms of a pack. Or, if it's just an over-nighter go 18th C. highlander style: carry your meager rations in a haversack and the "pockets" of your plaid.

As for getting wet, a 100% wool plaid or blanket will actually retain MORE heat when wet than dry. That's been scientifically proven, and I found out the truth of it at a Civil War reenactment. A vicious cold front came through and wrought havoc on our camp. My tent blew down and all my gear got soaked. Temperatures were low that night. I rolled up naked in my soaked wool blanket and was quite warm ( I had to strip off my damp cotton shirt which was making me cold, but after that was very toasty in my wet wool cocoon)....

[TheOfficialBren]

Honestly? I wouldn't go for it at all.

Here's why:

1) it's not practical. Historically the kilt has evolved as the need has arisen. Truthfully, a highlander of yore would probaby prefer a modern coat to his woolen wrap.

2) Taking care of business in the woods would be difficult. I wouldn't want to soil my nice tartan. Try squatting in the woods after shelling out the dough for nice tartan and tell me you won't be nervous.

3) Hazardous. Risk of snagging on twigs and branches or being singed at a campfire...after spending a pretty penny on tartan? Not, I, sir.

4) Cleaning. After a romp in the hinterland your nice tartan will get dirty. Very dirty. Mud, muck, dirt, grime, and perspiration will take it's toll and necessitate frequent dry cleaning. Expensive over time.

5) Uncomfortable. The first hour or so will be fine but after a while you will start to feel the drag of the extra weight and begin fatiguing. Even the Highlanders discarded the great kilt after its brief period of use in favour of the small kilt. Practicality has always been the order of the day with regard to the Scots and their kilting.

6) Belted plaids are a bit costumey...but great for reenactments. The modern kilt is a functional garment suited for today don't be the "Braveheart" wannabe running around in the woods. Too many guys already do that to the disservice of kilties everywhere.

Just my tuppence. I mean no disrespect or insult but those are my honest thoughts.

[Woodsheal]

Honestly? I wouldn't go for it at all.

Here's why:

1) it's not practical. Historically the kilt has evolved as the need has arisen. Truthfully, a highlander of yore would probaby prefer a modern coat to his woolen wrap.

2) Taking care of business in the woods would be difficult. I wouldn't want to soil my nice tartan. Try squatting in the woods after shelling out the dough for nice tartan and tell me you won't be nervous.

3) Hazardous. Risk of snagging on twigs and branches or being singed at a campfire...after spending a pretty penny on tartan? Not, I, sir.

4) Cleaning. After a romp in the hinterland your nice tartan will get dirty. Very dirty. Mud, muck, dirt, grime, and perspiration will take it's toll and necessitate frequent dry cleaning. Expensive over time.

5) Uncomfortable. The first hour or so will be fine but after a while you will start to feel the drag of the extra weight and begin fatiguing. Even the Highlanders discarded the great kilt after its brief period of use in favour of the small kilt. Practicality has always been the order of the day with regard to the Scots and their kilting.

6) Belted plaids are a bit costumey...but great for reenactments. The modern kilt is a functional garment suited for today don't be the "Braveheart" wannabe running around in the woods. Too many guys already do that to the disservice of kilties everywhere.

Just my tuppence. I mean no disrespect or insult but those are my honest thoughts.

I have to disagree with quite a bit of this. The belted plaid's "brief period of use" was well over 2 centuries, and served highlanders well "in the field" during that period. The "little kilt" developed basically for "non-field" usage.

It's not uncomfortable. I've "lived" in a belted plaid for two or three days running and found it quite comfortable in all manner of activities: marching, hiking, running, crouching, working around camp and campfires, you name it.

I do agree you have to be willing to abuse your length of tartan wool, get it grimy, smoky, and sweaty, etc. But, that's the point isn't it...?

[TheOfficialBren]

I can't argue with your experience, Brian. You are the resident expert.

I was under the impression that the belted plaid came into existence circa AD 1590 and disappeared circa AD 1700 when the phillabeg was created to accommodate the new lifestyles of the era (industrialisation). I must have been mistaken, though.

:-)

[Clockwork]

Honestly? I wouldn't go for it at all.

Here's why:

1) it's not practical. Historically the kilt has evolved as the need has arisen. Truthfully, a highlander of yore would probaby prefer a modern coat to his woolen wrap.

2) Taking care of business in the woods would be difficult. I wouldn't want to soil my nice tartan. Try squatting in the woods after shelling out the dough for nice tartan and tell me you won't be nervous.

3) Hazardous. Risk of snagging on twigs and branches or being singed at a campfire...after spending a pretty penny on tartan? Not, I, sir.

4) Cleaning. After a romp in the hinterland your nice tartan will get dirty. Very dirty. Mud, muck, dirt, grime, and perspiration will take it's toll and necessitate frequent dry cleaning. Expensive over time.

5) Uncomfortable. The first hour or so will be fine but after a while you will start to feel the drag of the extra weight and begin fatiguing. Even the Highlanders discarded the great kilt after its brief period of use in favour of the small kilt. Practicality has always been the order of the day with regard to the Scots and their kilting.

6) Belted plaids are a bit costumey...but great for reenactments. The modern kilt is a functional garment suited for today don't be the "Braveheart" wannabe running around in the woods. Too many guys already do that to the disservice of kilties everywhere.

Just my tuppence. I mean no disrespect or insult but those are my honest thoughts.

Thanks for giving some additional considerations and I appreciate your honesty. I do admit though, I find most of these manageable, and I'll explain why with all due respect. I'll number each counter-point respectively.

1) This is a matter of opinion, and while I certainly would not doubt that some would trade in the kilt for a coat, I do doubt that it would be universal. It comes down to preference on this matter. Just as some prefer blue jeans over cargo pants, it ultimately comes down to what the wearer finds most appealing.

2) This could be an issue if it were an emergency, but even then, I would imagine the bulk of fabric below the beltline could be tossed up onto the wearer's lap and out of harms way. Maybe I'm wrong on this though. It could also be completely removed; the nice thing about the great kilt is that it drops as soon as the belt/rope is unfastened. I'd have to test this one honestly.

3) I don't mind subjecting it to such abuse; I bought it with that already taken into consideration. It was also one of the reasons why I went for the Nevis line over plain wool.

4) This one is pretty much addressed in number 3. The nice thing about Teflon - stuff really doesn't stick to it.

5) I could see this being an issue if it was additional luggage; however, my intentions are for it to replace and reduce luggage. The kilt functions as a lower and partial upper body garment, a jacket, a blanket/sleeping bag, and possibly a rain shield if the Teflon coating repels water well enough. Plus, it serves well for carrying items in its ability to create large pockets.

6) They can be bulky, that's undeniable. However, I don't think they would be too unmanageable due to it being carried on the body and not interfering with movement. At least, the highlanders made use of them for quite a while. Garments which are too impractical tend to fizz out very quickly.

I do believe that many on here would agree with you on those points, but for me, a great kilt is more than just a costume or something worn for the look of it. Its appeal to me is its simplistic, yet diverse nature. That's what turned me on to them.

Cheers,
-Jake

[Clockwork]

I reiterate my point from the other thread, in terms of a pack. Or, if it's just an over-nighter go 18th C. highlander style: carry your meager rations in a haversack and the "pockets" of your plaid.

As for getting wet, a 100% wool plaid or blanket will actually retain MORE heat when wet than dry. That's been scientifically proven, and I found out the truth of it at a Civil War reenactment. A vicious cold front came through and wrought havoc on our camp. My tent blew down and all my gear got soaked. Temperatures were low that night. I rolled up naked in my soaked wool blanket and was quite warm ( I had to strip off my damp cotton shirt which was making me cold, but after that was very toasty in my wet wool cocoon)....

That's pretty amazing. Plain wool sounds quite nice, but don't think I'll be to disappointed with the Nevis wool. I think its only trade off might be less warmth when wet in exchange for ease of cleaning. I do want to ask though, have you ever box pleated a great kilt?

Cheers,
-Jake

[BBNC]

I agree that wool is warm when wet, it is the original performance fabric. It might be a pain to do so, but if the plaid is carrying enough water weight to be a burden, it can be taken off, wrung or shaken out, and put back on, still damp. Can't say how the pleats will hold up, though. If rain is expected, it might be wise not to wear a cotton or linen shirt, but something that will dry quickly, because unlike cotton, wool doesn't absorb water into the individual fibers, but the spaces in between. Wet cotton can cause hypothermia because as the water evaporates, it cools your body (which can be great in very hot weather). Ask your significant other how to do your business with a kilt on, so it doesn't get soiled.

BBNC

[Woodsheal]

Timeframe of use: mid 1500s (first definitive description 1594) to late 1700s. Even after the small kilt became the norm, plaids were carried for overnight use when out "in the sticks", even by lowlanders.

I've never box-pleated a great kilt, and am not sure how I'd go about it. The form shows up clearly in this early image, but how did they do it? Drawstring? Beltloops?

[Clockwork]

That shows it can be done at least. Maybe, instead of pulling and overlapping like we often see in demonstrations, a person could tuck the fabric underneath every alternative pull. In other words, you could pull-tuck-pull-tuck. Each pull would meet edge to edge, and each tuck would meet edge to edge. As I'm envisioning this, proper box pleats would be created. Let me test this on a small scale and I'll post pictures if it works.

Cheers,
-Jake