Tartan concepts, input appreciated

[OC Richard]

I've been working on designing a bespoke tartan for a Fire Department Pipe Band. The firemen have expressed favour of a predominately dark blue tartan with some red stripes and some green in there as well. After designing quite a few and mulling over them, this is my favourite:



It has three different blues, the idea coming from Isle of Skye which has three different greens.

One of the guys said that he would like "more lines". He thinks the tartan above is too stark or simple perhaps.

Here's an idea with more red lines introduced into the blue area. I myself don't think it any improvement, but it is interesting



What does the rabble think? Is either design dangerously close to something already out there? Thanks! Richard

(I checked Scotland 2000 and it's rather different though having the same basic colours.)

PS I discovered some interesting things in working through several variations of this basic design. One it that if I don't have black lines reinforcing the widest red stripe, that entire portion of the tartan looks weaker than the rest. Those black lines are necessary to restore balance. The second is that I found it necessary to have blue lines in the red/green area, to integrate that area with the blue area. If I take them out the tartan looks unbalanced with a nice blue area and an overly Christmas-y red/green area.

[creagdhubh]

Richard,

Aesthetically speaking, the second tartan sample is much more pleasing to my eye than the first. I like the addition of "more lines" as it does make the overall design of the tartan much more interesting to look at. Despite an obvious colour difference, the sett sort of reminds me of the Clan Chattan or the Clan MacFarlane sett; though along with the colours, there are also obvious overall design differences between this tartan and that of the Clan Chattan and Clan MacFarlane tartans.

I think what I really like about the second tartan sample, is the somewhat enlarged sett. There's a lot going on there, but not too much...it's definitely not the Ogilvie tartan, which tends to be much more complex than most registered tartans. I think the colours are spot on too, but perhaps the blue could be darkened a wee bit more? This tartan would look rather interesting in an 'ancient,' 'reproduction' and muted colour scheme as well. Nice job.

Cheers,

[David Thorpe]

I quite like your first one. The second seems a bit cluttered and busy to my eye, but not atrociously so.
Assuming that a pipe band would want to pleat to the stripe, the black-guarded red stripe might be a bit narrower, and the blue flanking it a bit wider, to allow taper in the pleats without the dreaded spear points.
The second design could be pleated to the narrow black stripe flanked by the red lines quite nicely.

[OC Richard]

Thanks guys! OMG David I hadn't even thought about pleating! Do'h! I'm so glad you brought that up.

Originally I had a single black line in a large unbroken dark blue field which would have been ideal for pleating. But all those variants looks too simpleminded/Allenlike for me, and I wanted some of the complexity of the genuine old 18th century tartans.

Well now that you point it out there's no good line to go with, really, given that the band has people of widely differing proportions.

Safest to go with the dark blue block. (I'm a big fan of pleating to the block anyhow.)

When I look back and forth between those two designs I think they're both OK but what my "eye" likes in the upper one is that it has a resting place in the placid blue area. The lower one is a bit busy and diffuse. My "eye" does have a place to rest, in the dark blue squares, but it's a smaller place.

[sailortats]

Richard, I know nothing about designing a tartan and therefore my idea may be ridiculous but in looking at the first example I think it might look a little better if the white lines reinforced the single black lines. These single black lines appear to rest on a slight green color and so the white lines could make a border to the green with the black in the center.

[creagdhubh]

It will be interesting to hear what Matt, Barb, Paul, Peter and Steve will have to say. I am by no means a tartan design expert either, though I do have an immense amount of appreciation and respect for those who are.

Cheers,

[TheOfficialBren]

The first one is better. I think the second one is a bit cluttered.

Lovely colours, though.

[RockyR]

I BELIEVE you have, but if not, just as a word of caution, keeping the # of colors to 6 or less keeps things easier (and cheaper).

One thing I've noticed in designing tartans, which isn't a BAD thing... just something I noticed: when the dominant colors of a tartan are red and blue, the overall look tends to be purple. This is VERY true when pleating to the stripe where the 2 cross (if you were to pleat this to the red pivot outlined in black for instance). Many guys don't like purple in their kilts, so it's something to consider. Again, it's not a negative, just something I noticed.

A perfect example of this are the American Bicentennial tartan. Where the blue and red cross, it looks purple.

[The Wizard of BC]

While I like both your Tartans I come from the kiltmaker side of things so tend to design Tartans that are simpler than yours. What I mean is that I tend to have larger blocks of my primary color. I then use the accent colors I want as 'overchecks' on top of the primary color.

Then, as Rocky pointed out, where two colors meet you need to take a close look at what third color will result from the two mixing.

When you have a Tartan with a lot of lines do a sample pleating job using a photo editing program to see what the Tartan would look like pleated up. Cut sections out of your design and paste them together.
This won't be perfect but will often bring out things you did not see looking at the design as a whole. for example, if you pleat your Tartans to the red stripe guarded by the black, the entire back of the kilt is now red and not the blue that your customer wanted as the primary.
In your designs the only way to keep the primary blue in the back of the kilt is to "pleat to no stripe". Will pleating this way cause "The Dread Lawnchair Effect"?

Keep in mind as you pleat this that you should have pleats about 5/8" to 1" wide. Your fabric needs to be able to be folded in such a way that that you minimize a color falling right on the edge of a pleat. When you taper the actual kilt any color on the edge of a pleat may disappear into the taper.

Here are my personal Tartan design guidelines.

1) 4-6 colors with 6 the absolute max. number of different colors.

2) A nice wide block of 3" - 4" of my primary color.

3) What happens to the colors where they cross in weaving.

4) The fewest lines that I can design keeping the intent of the customer in mind.

5) What will this design look like pleated and tapered.

6) Keep the Sett Size between 6.5" and 7.25" regardless of the weight of fabric.

As an example of what I am trying to get across here is a graphic of my USMC Dress Blue Tartan. It has five colors and I wanted the Dark and Light Blues to be predominant.



And this is what it looks like pleated.



By looking at these photos I think you can see that this Tartan gave me the result I wanted from my original concept.
Keeping the design simple allows me to pleat this Tartan many different ways. The Sett Size is good for either knife pleats with lots of depth or box pleats with a good pleat reveal.

[crash]

Richard, I too am completely unqualified to comment but well... you asked. lol I agree with you and prefer the upper to the lower for the same reasons you noted. Before I read David's post I was prepareing to remind you to think about pleating and how pipe bands usually/not always, pleat to the stripe. Well in for a penny in for a pound. The red stripe that is guarded by the green...what if the white stripe guarded both sides of the green. Just my 2 cents. Keep us posted. This is going to be a fun thread.