'Black tie' questions

[Jacobite Laddie]

The old diced kilt hose question – simply, as I’m quite young; I can’t really afford a pair of proper wool diced or tartan hose. I’ve plenty of excuses to turn out in the Highland finery, but since my grandfather died I can’t ask him to settle questions of propriety! I'm familiar enough with the day kilt and tweeds, less so with black tie - I know the magnificent Lumsden of Cushnie, perhaps the great authority on Scots heraldry, dress and so on in Scotland (I’m in the Highlands), deplored the off-white kilt hose – it’s said he used to present a small card printed with ‘any colour but white’ to transgressors! For a ‘black tie’ event, would solid coloured hose be, not ideal, but acceptable? Kinloch Anderson sell solid coloured hose* (in, for instance, black and Lovat Green) for a far more manageable £20.00. Would Lumsden look kindly on it? Would you?



Of course, what colour? I think black is unlikely, but what would you suggest? Also, what sort of shirt ought to be worn with black tie? I can find no source – I assume as I have always done,a starched marcella shirt with studs and a turn-down collar, not the ‘boiled’ shirt and wing collar which is reserved for white tie.


Thank you,
P

PS: Forgive the anglicism - to those of you in the New World, marcella is piqué.

* http://www.kinlochanderson.com/mens/...ilt-hose-socks

[Cygnus]

Many on this forum (I believe our own Jock Scot is among them) feel that diced or argyll hose are a bit much for a black-tie event, so solid colour are fine. I'm quite partial to the patterned hose, but I don't think you'd be wrong at all to wear solid hose with black tie. Claret seems to be the most popular colour with X-Markers at present, but any colour (except white and maybe black) would do the trick - just whatever tickles your fancy.

As for the shirt, my understanding when it comes to non-Highland wear is that the stiff-front shirt with detachable wing collar is acceptable for black tie, though a bit formal (and it would probably look out of place with solid-colour hose). As you said, a Marcella shirt with turn-down collar and double cuffs will do the trick just fine - and it happens to be what I have in my wardrobe for black-tie events.

[Llama]

Solid hose are just fine for black tie. Though, if you have your heart set on diced, J Higgins sells machine knit diced hose for $60 USD

They're a bit stretched out on my 21" calves, but if you have a normal sized leg, you should be fine
198lrg.jpg

[CMcG]

As far as I know, solid colour hose are perfectly acceptable with black tie attire. Personally, I prefer a darker shade and, to that end, have a pair of navy hose, but there are other options. I'd like to get a pair of charcoal hose or maybe a nice deep red.

If you look on eBay, you could probably find a pair of second hand diced, tartan, or Argyle hose for half of what Kinloch Anderson charges for new, solid colour ones. I did! Some people on Xmarks like patterned hose with formal wear and some people don't. I like to keep my options open

As for the shirt, I think you can't go wrong with the marcella/piqué, studs, and turn-down collar. A pleated front is another option and that is what I have.

[Chas]

I only wear a wing collar for white tie events. A fold down collar for black tie.

Regards

Chas

[Tobus]

From what I've gleaned over the years, I think you're spot on. A turn-down collar shirt with studs is perfect for black tie. Solid-colour hose (anything but white) is perfectly acceptable, and probably even the best choice if you're trying to be conservatively within tradition. I don't think matching tartan hose are too much for black tie, but that's just me. If anything, I think tartan hose are perfect for black tie and diced hose are perfect for white tie.

Personally, I dislike black hose almost as much as white hose. Too extreme. I much prefer a middle-of-the-road approach with a colour that is neither too loud nor too boring.

[creagdhubh]

From what I've gleaned over the years, I think you're spot on. A turn-down collar shirt with studs is perfect for black tie. Solid-colour hose (anything but white) is perfectly acceptable, and probably even the best choice if you're trying to be conservatively within tradition. I don't think matching tartan hose are too much for black tie, but that's just me. If anything, I think tartan hose are perfect for black tie and diced hose are perfect for white tie.

Personally, I dislike black hose almost as much as white hose. Too extreme. I much prefer a middle-of-the-road approach with a colour that is neither too loud nor too boring.

***

The late David Gordon Allen d'Aldecamb Lumsden of Cushnie, Garioch Pursuivant to the Chief of the Name and Arms of Mar, ever so smart in his traditional manner of wearing Highland dress.


With all due respect towards the late Lumsden of Cushnie, wouldn't you agree that it's a bit contradictory that he deplored the wearing of off-white kilt hose, as he can be seen wearing a pair in the photo below. I think in this particular context of traditional Highland day attire, he looks quite smart and the off-white hose work well with his overall outfit.


A few more photos.




Cheers,

[Tobus]

With all due respect towards the late Lumsden of Cushnie, wouldn't you agree that it's a bit contradictory that he deplored the wearing of off-white kilt hose, as he can be seen wearing a pair in the photo below. I think in this particular context of traditional Highland day attire, he looks quite smart and the off-white hose work well with his overall outfit.

I'm not familiar with what he actually said about white or off-white hose, but it looks to me like the hose he's wearing in the photo you posted may actually be more like oatmeal or a light tan/khaki or tea-stained colour, with perhaps the colour being washed-out a bit in the sunlight. And while I also tend to dislike white or cream hose except in rare circumstances, I do own a pair of light tan hose. I rarely wear them (in fact, I haven't even seen them in quite some time and had forgotten about them until now), but I think it's dark enough that it doesn't give off the same look as white/cream. Especially, as you said, with daywear. Personally, I think he looks great with those hose and wouldn't think twice about wearing some like that.

Which is the long way of saying no, I don't think he's being contradictory.

[TheOfficialBren]

From what I've gleaned over the years, I think you're spot on. A turn-down collar shirt with studs is perfect for black tie. Solid-colour hose (anything but white) is perfectly acceptable, and probably even the best choice if you're trying to be conservatively within tradition. I don't think matching tartan hose are too much for black tie, but that's just me. If anything, I think tartan hose are perfect for black tie and diced hose are perfect for white tie.

Personally, I dislike black hose almost as much as white hose. Too extreme. I much prefer a middle-of-the-road approach with a colour that is neither too loud nor too boring.

***, Tobus.

Kyle, I agree with Tobus about those hose. I think he was wearing oatmeal hose but in vintage photos, as I'm sure you know, colours tend to wash out.

[The Wizard of BC]

As I tend to dress in a bit more modern style I own no diced hose.

But I am asked, on occasion, to speak at events where the invitation states "Black Tie".

In the civilian world "Black Tie" means Tuxedo, so I take as my guidelines what would be appropriate for civilian Tuxedo.

In this photo I chose to wear my wing collar shirt but any tuxedo shirt would work just fine.

I also chose to wear charcoal hose. There is really nothing wrong with cream hose but I did not think they would be 'somber' enough for this particular event.

If you are catching a hint here. My general rule of thumb is to match my dress to the level of formality and to what others would be wearing to the event.
I very seldom attend events where "Scottish Highland Dress" is specified on the invitation.



We will probably never settle the hose color dilemma. Almost every Scottish based website you visit will show white or cream hose for tuxedo level events. Most people starting out wearing the kilt will use these as their guide so we cannot fault them. They would naturally think, "The Scots tell us this is what is expected".

This is also one, of only three times I have ever worn Ghillie Brogues. The only reason I even have a pair is that a customer came into the shop and handed me his pair. He stated he would never wear them again and they happen to be my perfect size.