Really are they that scared!

[Father Bill]

Actually, Jock, my position has changed. I now wear the kilt with a lot less enthusiasm, joy, and love, because I know that I am not respected when I do so. That's a real change. There are times indeed when I dislike the thing itself because I feel so little respect coming to me.

[Jock Scot]

Actually, Jock, my position has changed. I now wear the kilt with a lot less enthusiasm, joy, and love, because I know that I am not respected when I do so. That's a real change. There are times indeed when I dislike the thing itself because I feel so little respect coming to me.

That is a shame Bill, just so I clearly understand what you are saying. Just where do you expect this respect to come from?

[Singlemalt]

Actually, Jock, my position has changed. I now wear the kilt with a lot less enthusiasm, joy, and love, because I know that I am not respected when I do so. That's a real change. There are times indeed when I dislike the thing itself because I feel so little respect coming to me.

That is a shame Bill, sorry to hear these discussions have affected you that way. In your line of work you know how hard it is to please all the people, all the time. You never will.

I have expressed before that it has made me sad and angry when I hear a few from within Scotland question the ties I feel for that small old and cold little country when I have this huge, new and also cold one under my feet. However, I know that that view is not universally held there. I recall as a boy my father reading us letters from his old spinster Auntie Vic in Inverness. He had sent some pictures of my brother and I kilted and she was so happy and proud that we remembered where we were from and our family traditions. I also do business with Scots who don't seem the least surprised my family still feels a connection.

I don't fully understand people with only very tenuous connections to Scotland choosing to wear a kilt and I don't fully understand Scots who think we of the diaspora having no more connection to the country and it's customs and heritage than a Kalahari Bushman. So I will wear and believe what feels right to me and try not to be judgmental of others opinions. Enough said.

[Jock Scot]

Singlemalt.

With the greatest of respect you misunderstand. We all have our roots, including the Scots, and we all from wherever we are in the world have varying knowledge (ranging from none to exstensive) of our ancestors and the Scots are very well aware of that. It is the degree that many Scots diaspora "celebrate" those roots that baffles some of us.

[Father Bill]

I have a response coming, but that particular tab is frozen - wait for it!

[Father Bill]

That is a shame Bill, just so I clearly understand what you are saying. Just where do you expect this respect to come from?

Hi Jock.

In fact, you're one potential source! Why? Because I usually like what you have to say and certainly like and respect what you seem to stand for. Thank you very much for asking for clarification. That is a form of respect too, and it means a lot to me.

I'll try to explain once more, but we've been around this mulberry bush more than once both publicly and in private messages, and I'm not sure that you're comprehending Canadian culture. Therein lies the misfire on both sides of the pond. I'm willing to accept responsibility for trying to explain it clearly, but it's both rather subtle, and I'm sure it's at least a little puzzling.

So: what I seek is that it be understood outwith North America, that here, in this polyglot land, mutual love and perpetuation of, and mutual respect for, our various ancestors and origins is a HUGE part of our national and cultural life, and in many ways IS, if not our culture, then overwhelmingly the basis of it. We Canadians, and while I need not speak for them, I daresay our American cousins too, relish our origins and those of our ancestors.

At the same time, I certainly do understand and respect that it must be frustrating to see something that is seen as your own, being appropriated, and in many cases abused and disrespected by others because they believe that they can do as then d____ well please. Yes, we can all do as we wish within the law, but I think you know that I'm one who tries with mighty effort to respect the intentions of those who have blessed us with the gifts that are our heritage.

You also know how often I have felt "rootless," and that this celebration of heritage is an anchor for me, and possibly many other Canadians. I love my ancestral heritage, and I wish to link to and celebrate them and it with unalloyed enthusiasm and without any "harrumphing" in the background. It does hurt.

I am sure that I know how you voted on the current poll in another thread. Believe me, I voted the same way. I've identified myself as a crusty old guy, and happily so. I'm a died in the wool traditionalist, so to be told that what I'm doing is improper, stings.

I do not ever claim to be a Scot; I'm Canadian, and fiercely proud of it, but I love Scotland, its history, its stories, and its traditions, so it should never be a surprise to anyone that I'm also delighted to find that I have a heritage and roots within that culture which I so admire... because to behave and feel that way is a massive and not only common but usual and official (Government sanctioned) part of Canadian culture!!!!! Note how many Highland regiments Canada has fielded. Note how many of our streets and cities have Highland names. Note how many Scots have chosen Canada as their second home. Note that we love Scotland! (Put that in your pipe and smoke it! )

That all said, to hear a frequent refrain that infers that I should never in any way associate myself with Scotland is to my Canadian bred, educated, and lived cultural norms offensive, and yes, it does sadden me because it is disrespectful to Canadian culture as I have so inadequately described it.

Jock, this is what we do in Canada. We have festivals and clothing of just about every culture in the world, because it's the way we teach one another and respect one another and our wonderful mosaic differences. To do so IS Canadian culture. We even have a federal ministry of multiculturalism! It's what we are, what we do, and what we respect, so, to tell me that we shouldn't do it is as disrespectful to us as I personally believe some of the abuses of the kilt must be to Scotland.

Within that Canadian context I can not be convinced that to wear it is to disrespect you, the highlanders, Scotland, or anybody else. It is worn from a love of what your nation has given ours. When I hear that we have no right to celebrate, memorialize, and help to perpetuate those gifts in the most respectful and meaningful ways we can find is deeply hurtful to me, and yes, I am saddened by it. Am I thin-skinned? Perhaps. I prefer to think of it as deeply polite and kindly intended, and that too is part of Canadian culture.

End result: I'm not sure if I'll sell all my kilts, or merely log off of this forum... or neither but I deeply appreciate the fact that you asked for clarification.

Here endeth the lesson, and perhaps I should hastily dismount from my soapbox. We've licked this horse to death before.

[Jock Scot]

I am really sorry if I have been responsible for shattering your (any one's for that matter) illusions and that is sad, really sad, but are illusions a wise thing to have in the real world? I honestly think not. I am sure Canada does things in their own way and whilst I try to understand your culture and others and whilst I do try hard to understand what you and others are saying, it is perhaps unrealistic for anyone to relate to it sensibly unless actually living it? Can anyone really understand (not rose tinted spectacle stuff) the Scots point of view without living it? I think probably not.

Funnily enough the reply that I have just given Singlemalt(above) may help you understand a wee bit. I hope so.

I am off! Over and out!

[Father Bill]

Yes Jock, I understand that the bafflement is the basis of all of this. You have not shattered any illusions, what you have done is to fail to recognize - for all of the reasons you have articulately explained - that Canadian culture is to do exactly the thing that you dislike so much. That basically means, I guess, that you dislike Canadian culture.

Yes, that hurts!

I am really sorry if I have been responsible for shattering your (any one's for that matter) illusions and that is sad, really sad, but are illusions a wise thing to have in the real world? I honestly think not. I am sure Canada does things in their own way and whilst I try to understand your culture and others and whilst I do try hard to understand what you and others are saying, it is perhaps unrealistic for anyone to relate to it sensibly unless actually living it? Can anyone really understand (not rose tinted spectacle stuff) the Scots point of view without living it? I think probably not.

Funnily enough the reply that I have just given Singlemalt(above) may help you understand a wee bit. I hope so.

I am off! Over and out!

[Singlemalt]

Singlemalt.

With the greatest of respect you misunderstand. We all have our roots, including the Scots, and we all from wherever we are in the world have varying knowledge (ranging from none to exstensive) of our ancestors and the Scots are very well aware of that. It is the degree that many Scots diaspora "celebrate" those roots that baffles some of us.

Jock, also with respect, and with affection because I love a spirited debate. Perhaps it is the view of the diaspora which this forum provides that gives you a perspective you find so "baffling". The only pictures I have ever posted here are of me kilted, the only stories I have told are of my Scottish roots. However, I assure you there is a lot more to my life. I go to work to play and enjoy this most perfect of all possible worlds 99.9% of the time in bifurcated clothing. I type this in Cahartt coveralls as I need to go outside soon with my dogs. My Scottish heritage and love of kilts is important to my life but not essential to it. It is all I talk about here but is that not the purpose of this forum? My family and my roots are important to me and kilts are a part of it. I am even uncomfortable with your choice of the word "celebrate". I don't celebrate my heritage, I live it and I try to pass it on to my sons. Celebrate suggest something very flamboyant and extroverted. I wear a kilt because of how it makes me feel inside not for impact or to impress others.

To press the point that I have lots else going on here is a photo you may appreciate as I know we share another interest. Please note no kilt, no tartan but a very happy and proud Scots-Canadian.

[Jock Scot]

That is unfair Bill! I have not ever said that I dislike Canadian culture and you know full well that I have not. I have said that I cannot relate to it and I can't, but that is not to say by any means that I dislike it.

Now it really is over and out as I have a 500 mile drive in front of me.