Tartan authority - what can I wear?

[MacGumerait]

The Standing Council of Scottish Chiefs .

http://www.clanchiefs.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standin...cottish_Chiefs

Cheers

[Shedlock2000]

So, Im pretty sure I have narrowed it down to:

MacDonald of the Isle - weathered
Roxburgh Red - weathered
Roxburgh Green - weathered
Hunting Stewart - weathered
Kerr Clan Hunting - weathered

I have seen a number of great photos of the MacDonald of the Isles, but, does anybody have any photos of a kilt in the others?

Here are the swatches:Kerr Hunting Weathered.jpgMacDonals of the Isle Weathered.jpgRoxburgh Gree Weathered.jpgRoxburgh_Red_Reproduction_Colours_Pure_New_Wool_15.jpgHunting Stewart Weathered.jpg

So, what say all yea wise persons?

[Shedlock2000]

Excellent! Thank you!

The Standing Council of Scottish Chiefs .

http://www.clanchiefs.org/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standin...cottish_Chiefs

Cheers

[mookien]

... I have seen a number of great photos of the MacDonald of the Isles, but, does anybody have any photos of a kilt in the others? ...

Looks like you got the snaps down for comparisons. Those are all pretty "earthy" to me.

You can use Google Images, enter text like "roxburgh red kilt" or "roxburgh red tartan", and oft times see actual (as opposed to computer generated) pictures of the kilt or tartan.

[ForresterModern]

As one whose surname is that of a lowland/border "family" (not historically a clan) and whose "clan" tartan come in two rather "vivid" varieties (Forrester Modern first looked to me like a clown tartan with all the jumbled up colors and little appearence to organization, while Forrester Hunting looked frankly like Ireland National with all the bright greens) I can tell you that the "connection" Tobus speaks of does have some depth to it, as I wear both my family tartans now regularly and without any conscious concern over their color patterns. I also look to the Douglas tartans in their various color schemes (wearing 5 different ones now with fabric for two more different ones) because that clan was closely affiliated with my family historically. I also wear regional tartans which I particulalry like, Maple Leaf and Isle of Skye, and other clan tartans to which I have some relations (MacDonalds and Allen) or some other string (MacDonald of Glencoe).

Rethink your concerns about your regional or clan tartan, and it may grow on you over time. To the newer kilt wearer, who already may be self-conscious about sticking out in a crowd just by wearing a kilt, there is sometimes an additive over-consciousness about bright or bold colors or patterns common in tartan (if I already stick out it will only be worse if the kilt is in really bright colors) that makes a newbie often want to choose more subtle tones and patterns, a feeling which will wear off as you become more comfortable wearing the classical tartan kilt. And as others have suggested consider other local families, allied families, adjacent areas, other unaffiliated tartans (so called universals), other family names in your geneology, and variant color schemes.

But as someone suggested you, as a neo-canadian, have more than the right to wear one of the loveliest tartans around, the beautiful Maple Leaf tartan (I have a kilt in this too which I absolutely adore---thanks Barb T). I could spend the rest of my life in that tartan alone and be more than satisfied I think.

[Shedlock2000]

Shedlock,
As I understand it, firth appeared first in Scotland from Norse and then passed into Old English. It may be related to "frith" which I think did mean calm/safety etc. Both words go away back into early Norse and have nothing to do with Gaelic.
Alan

Having had a bit of spare time in reading break, Alan, I did some research - it seems my protestations about being a recent surname have been have been disproven by a recent croll find mentioning the Firth surname in the 14th century!:


"To the English Firth means living on or near scrubland, wood, woodland, or forest. The middle English meaning of Firth is an estuary or wide valley. P.H. Reaney in his book A Dictionary of English Surnames indicates that the Firth comes from a family of surnames that originated from an old English surname called Firhpe. Like most surnames, Firhpe has several spelling variations that includes Ferhpe and Fyrhpe. The “rhp” was dropped from the word Firphe because it was difficult to pronounce. Other surnames that came from the root word Firphe includes Frith, Frid, Fridd, Fryd, Freeth, Freed, Vreede, Frift, Thrift, Fright, Freak, Freake, Freke, Firk, and Firks. In the past, Scribes and Church Officials commonly spelled surnames the way they sounded which could change several times in a person lifetime. The Firth surname had several versions of it which included Fyrth, Firthe and Firths.To the Scottish Firth is the Scots word for a fjord (a long, narrow, often deep inlet from the sea between steep cliffs and slopes), a bay, or mouth of a river. I have also seen one website author claim that Firth evolved from an old Norse word called fjorthr which means inlet or estuary (related to their word ford - to ford a stream). The Merriam-Webster Online dictionary seems to support this claim. Examples of this include the Firth of Forth, Moray Firth, Firth of Clyde, and the Firth of Tay."

"The earliest known records of the Firth surname can be found in the old Scottish border county of Roxburghshire. Roxburghshire no longer exists as a separate county due to the 1973 Local Government Act. The area became part of the Scottish Borders in 1975. The border region was the home of Scottish and English clans called the Reivers. These clans were involved in raiding, robbery, blackmail, arson, kidnapping, murder and extortion. A surname scroll I purchased from Swyrich Corporation indicated that the Firth family in the Borders region was involved in the troubles but it stopped short of going into any great detail."

From a scroll purchased from Swyrich Corporation:
"From these fighting clans of the border the surname Firth was found in Roxburgh. The Firth family name is derived from the place of the same name near Lilliesleaf in Roxburghshire in Scotland. The name of this town in turn comes from the ancient word "firth" meaning "bay". In their early history the Firth family became involved in the south Scotland border problems. The place name Firth is also found in the large island of Mainland, part of the Orkney Islands. As a result of the border agreements, some members of the family migrated to England. By 1379 John Firth had established the family at Oak Brook, in Yorkshire. Another branch, headed by Bernard Firth acquired estates and lands at Norton Hall in Yorkshire. By the middle ages the Firth family had moved as far south as Cheshire. Later the same branch moved to Devon. Meanwhile in Scotland the name flourished during the middle ages and by 1522 the Firths of the Orkney Islands, as represented by Nicholas Firth, had purchased land at Sabay. Records also show John Firth witnessed the sale of some property at Kirkwall in 1565. Thomas Firth moved to Home in Berwickshire in 1606 and Janet Firth is recorded in a census of landholders in Lanarkshire in 1630. Four more of the name were also recorded in West Muir, just outside of Glasgow, in 1630. Notable amongst the family name during the early history was Firth of Roxburghshire."


You are clearly right about the etymology - but I thought the other information was very interesting, and confirms my youthful investigations about origines. However, I was under the impression that the name originated in the mid 1600's, but a source mentions " Nycholl Fyrtht on inquest at Sabay, 1522" and a "john Firth in 1379"..... Ive always loved the thorn, but it wont show up in this reply text. I think I will start spelling my name differently!

I would like to thank Dwayne Firth (http://members.tripod.com/firth_home/index.htm) for the leg work on his site.... Much of the above comes from him, and his site.

[David]

Its a bit off topic I know, but I never thought I'd see Carnwath mentioned here, last post on the 1st page - I forgot to reply with "quote"

[creagdhubh]

Why the aversion to these colours? What's not cool about them?

As one whose clan tartan is of the blue/green variety, it can actually get pretty boring. I sometimes wish my clan tartan were of the brighter red/green style. I guess we are just seeing it from opposite ends of the spectrum, in a "grass is greener on the other side of the fence" type mentality.

But I think a good bit of advice is to simply embrace the tartan with which you most closely identify, and don't be so particular on the colours. Tartan has way more meaning than the hues it contains.

Well said, Tobus!

[Wil]

Tweedside, Teviotdale, Border Check. Standing Council says Roxburgh and Kelso would be clan Kerr,though that's
quite bright also.

Kerr has a very nice hunting -ancient tartan in blue and green (not really bright) it seems to be nice. Also try the modern tartan it is red, black and green but you might look like you are waiting on father Christmas....

[David Thorpe]

...I think a good bit of advice is to simply embrace the tartan with which you most closely identify, and don't be so particular on the colours. Tartan has way more meaning than the hues it contains.

Tobus has hit the bullseye (again). Those who choose to wear a tartan solely out of a sense of fashion or personal taste miss out on the significance of wearing tartan. It has to do with pride, a sense of one's place in the world, one's birthright and more importantly, being a part of a community - your clan.

I am somewhat of a tartan addict. I have seen and admired many tartans that I would not wear myself, not because I don't like the color or pattern, but because they represent a group of people to which I do not belong. I do not find it the least bit uncomfortable to admire something and not possess it. Just because it isn't mine doesn't make it any less beautiful.

On the flip side, from a purely aesthetic perspective, my clan's tartans are not the very most beautiful ever designed or woven, but I would wear them even if they were dog-butt ugly (which they aren't).

My unsolicited advice is to put the horse back in front of the cart. You have already done some genealogical research. Contact the association(s) of the clan(s) that you have discovered in your background. Get to know some of your kinsfolk at some Highland Games or other gatherings. I am fairly confident that you will soon discover a much more meaningful reason for wearing a tartan than choosing one which happens to strike your fashion fancy.