Edinburgh Kilt Co.

[Nik]

I own three kilts. Each and everyone made in Pakistan. Does this mean I only support cheap knockoffs? Of coarse not. I bought my kilts as I was finding a nitch that fits my style, still am there actually. This is not to say I will only by hand sewn kilts from this point on.

It's a very old argument on this forum.

Yes the company sells kilts that are not 100% genuine. And well that makes people upset, things have to change. What does that mean? You have things like PV made or arcylic to make the cloth for a kilt cheaper. You have people try speading up production by machine sewing the kilts. And in the worst way you have kiltmakers using shortcuts on the reinforcement of the buckles and pleats.

I see that with the auto industry here in the States. The big three have outsources a lot to Canada, Mexico and over to Asia. Funny thing many of the Asian auto makers have built plants here. Even BMW has built a plant in the U.S.

The point is that things are going to very, with more options and business wanting to reach more customers and please more customer with lower prices. You will have companies that will do this. The fact they don't advertise the fact they are not authentic or genuine is like asking Utilikilts if they were inspired by the kilt, no, becuase it would hurting themselves and the customer. You have to start somewhere and you have to find what makes you happy.

I've considered buying a Heritage of Scotland kilt. It looks good, and I know from the reviews It's not going to be a truly long lasting garment. If I want a true kilt, well I'd get a kilt from a kiltmaker here. But I don't have $300+ to buy one now, and maybe I don't want to wait either.

Best thing to do is make the potental customers know what they are buying, and not have any illusions to that fact.

-Nik

[RockyR]

I own three kilts. Each and everyone made in Pakistan. Does this mean I only support cheap knockoffs? Of coarse not. I bought my kilts as I was finding a nitch that fits my style, still am there actually. This is not to say I will only by hand sewn kilts from this point on.

It's a very old argument on this forum.

Just to clarify my post, I wasn't talking about kilts. Unless the tartan is private, there are no "knockoff kilts", only inexpensive mass produced import ones vs custom made ones.

What I was referring to was ACCESSORIES that are direct rip offs. Example:

Original design Glen Esk buckle we carry on our site:


Knockoff buckle being sold by a large US Kilt Retailer:




Original design Glen Esk buckle we carry on our site:



Knockoff buckle being sold by large US Kilt Retailer:



Those are straight design copies, so why would a company want to come out with a new design when others have no shame and will make exact duplicates and undercut the price by having it made by much cheaper labor?

[slohairt]

Glue?! What sort of shadiness is that?!

Yes, glue, and very often fusible tape. (The kind which melts with the application of heat.) It's particularly difficult when one has to make the apron of a kilt larger. If you're lucky, the tape will come off in nice big pieces. If not, then you're stuck spending a lot of time picking bits from the fabric. Sometimes it doesn't come off at all.

[TheOfficialBren]

Yes, glue, and very often fusible tape. (The kind which melts with the application of heat.) It's particularly difficult when one has to make the apron of a kilt larger. If you're lucky, the tape will come off in nice big pieces. If not, then you're stuck spending a lot of time picking bits from the fabric. Sometimes it doesn't come off at all.

Good lord! That sounds like a nightmare! I think I will just stick to kilt builders around here. It may cost a bit more but I know that every single one of you guys is respected for the quality of your wares; money better invested, in my opinion.

[Father Bill]

I think I will just stick to kilt builders around here. It may cost a bit more but I know that every single one of you guys is respected for the quality of your wares; money better invested, in my opinion.

...and that's the point!

[Babyvett]

Rocky, I will say, that you get what you pay for.. The difference in the details of the buckles you carry vs the knock offs is obvious.. And I for one would rather pay the extra cash for something that looks as fine quality as yours vs the cheaper crap..

(Btw, after show the Glen Esk belt I think you'll be getting an order from us soon.. although, when we looked at your website, Charles kinda fell in love with the more expensive Black version.. haha See, cheaper isn't always better!!!)

[Pleater]

[QUOTE=KiltFitz;1154143

Going back to where we started (I think) companies like the EKC offer tat. But for some, tat is all that can be afforded. Artisan products are nice but the masses require mass-produced and cheap, few of us can afford to commission an artisan to spend days on luxury items which will likely have rapidly depreciating value. I fear the day when the only highland wear I see at weddings or other occasions is worn by those who can afford it and delight in parading their affluence in front of the envious. The market will save us from that however.[/QUOTE]

Ah - but they don't depreciate rapidly - that is just the thing, and quality garments are not a luxury.

I suspect that you would not live long enough to see good quality Highland wear wear out - it is actually quite a frugal way to dress if you assess the cost per year rather than just the initial outlay. Maybe once you get started the effect will be cumulative, even with cheaper kilts. I have been surprised at how the first kilts I made have lasted even though they were not top quality fabrics.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[OC Richard]

for some, tat is all that can be afforded...

the masses require mass-produced and cheap...

parading their affluence in front of the envious.

I must say I don't agree with this sort of thing.

1) some people can only afford tat: My response to this is that, for the same price as "tat", one can pick up ex-hire or vintage/used Made In Scotland high quality clothes. There are several sporrans on Ebay at this moment of the very highest quality going for half the price of a Pakistani-made sporran. The fine Scottish-made sporran has, in some cases, already given an owner a lifetime of use and has a few more human lifetimes of use left in it! Ditto high-quality all-wool handsewn kilts, high quality jackets, etc.

The black Argyll jacket I got off Ebay for less than $100 is probably ex-hire (it has its size marked inside with some sort of fabric pen) and it's one of the finest jackets I've seen. The fabric is luxurious and soft and several notches nicer than anything I've seen for sale at the Games recently (and I'm talking Scottish-made jackets from leading firms).

I have a couple sporrans bought cheaply off Ebay made by Nicol Bros Bankfoot, one of Scotland's leading sporranmakers. These are of the highest quality and will long outlast me!

There are lovely 8-yard handsewn all-wool kilts on Ebay all the time, oftentimes for less than a "tat" kilt would cost.

2) the masses require mass-produced and cheap: I don't think the masses require Highland Dress. It's specialty clothing and completely optional.

3) parading their affluence: see above... I have no affluence to parade, but enjoy wearing high-quality things that in most cases I've picked up for less than "tat".

And keep in mind that "tat" can be more costly in other ways, such as with the Pipe Band who got a set of cheap Pakistani sporrans, only to discover that the band kilts which had survived decades of hard use were now being shredded in front by sharp bits of metal that were sticking out from the backs of the sporrans and sporran-chains.

BTW here's the crude Pakistani recast



Here's the original, made in Scotland by Glen Esk, one of their original designs. I have this buckle and it's lovely. It was also worn by the director of Brave at the Academy Awards

[kiltedwolfman]

Just to make something clear, I'm not a fan of the Gold Bros. they're products or their practices. That being said however I have had the chance to lay one of thier higher dollar kilts ( about 150 quid) right beside a custom Scottish made "tank" of much higher cost ( the kilt maker I won't mention ) and as much as I hate to admit it the Gold Bros. kilt was put together much better. It was machine stitched sure enough but the stitches were consistenly spaced and tensioned, the pleats were layed out perfectly to the sett, and the material while acrylic was a high end acrylic that had no signs of wear, fading, or pilling. The "tank" on the other hand had many visible stitches, the stitch length was never consistent in any of the sewn areas, it lacked the internal construction that all good "tanks" should have. I kills me to have to admit that of the two the Pakistani made kilt was the better product. The traditional kilt was lacking in so many ways and the price the person payed for it just floored me ( they have since sent it back for a complete rebuild )

My point here is that we are very ready to say that all of the Pakistani kilts are junk and not worth strapping on, and up until I had the chance to juxtapose the pair of them I would have been right on the wagon with the rest of you, now however I have to admit that I am willing to take them at a kilt by kilt basis and reserve judgement until I've run my hands over them.

Is most of the stuff coming out of the Gold Bros. shops worthless? Possibly. But I would be taking a good looking glass to the stuff we put on pedestals and judging them with an equal scale.

[RockyR]

Just to make something clear, I'm not a fan of the Gold Bros. they're products or their practices. That being said however I have had the chance to lay one of thier higher dollar kilts ( about 150 quid) right beside a custom Scottish made "tank" of much higher cost ( the kilt maker I won't mention ) and as much as I hate to admit it the Gold Bros.

As an FYI, the Gold Brothers DO have some of their wool kilts made in Scotland. They get material from the different Scottish Mills and have them made by the CMT kilt maker (who shall remain nameless in so it doesn't appear we're bashing them) that uses the "fusible lining". For 150 Quid, it's quality is "worth it". It is made in Scotland (to the best of my knowledge, which I am willing to say I'm 90% sure).

Do they ALSO sell Pakistani kilts? You bet. But they don't generally cost 150 GBP... they're typically at the 50 GBP pricepoint or less.

NOT that I'm trying to promote the Gold Brothers, stuff... just saying this is most likely what you saw:

http://www.heritageofscotland.com/Ki...4715,index.php

Not these Pakistani models they carry:

http://www.heritageofscotland.com/Ca...4458,index.php