Help (with "setting up" pipes)

**O'Searcaigh** · 27th April 13, 10:39 AM

Well, that was supposed to be "HELP" but I don't know how to edit/correct a thread title. Anyway, this may be a shot in the dark but.... I am a reasonably "well cured" musician. I play several wind instruments, principally trumpet, of which I have a collection. A long time ago I was even a "professional" (symphonic to pop). I can play and have several high end Irish whistles and can play quite a few tunes on the practice chanter (even without using breath breaks). I also have a very nice set of Dunbar P3 pipes but for the life of me I can't seem to get them to work. I have stopped up the drones, can get the chanter to sound but loose so much air in the course of playing that it is almost impossible to make it through even a short tune. I can actually play a tune through on the pipe's (not practice) chanter by playing it like an oboe. I have read that "even a 10 year old girl" can play the pipes. Obviously something isn't right; I know the pipes are a "difficult" instrument but geeze.... I live in a VERY remote area; the closest piper/teacher is over 100 miles away. I have at times been tempted simply to say "to heck with it" and stick to my whistles (for Celtic stuff) but believe it or not, I have been encouraged to keep at it by family, friends and neighbors (usually it works the other way, I'm told). I've also heard that "a gentleman is a man who knows how to play the pipes but doesn't." I guess I am shooting to at least be ABLE to be a gentleman. At this point -- chanter capable only-- I don't qualify!

Help???!!!

**imrichmond** · 27th April 13, 11:04 AM

If you have the drones stopped up, can play a tune on the pipe chanter by mouth-blowing it, yet cannot get through a tune when the chanter is in the stock, then you very likely have a leak in the bag. Check for this by putting stoppers in the drone and chanter stocks and inflating the bag. It should stay inflated to the point where you cannot put another full breath of air into it. If it begins to deflate immediately or almost immediately, then you have a leak somewhere. If your bag is hide (leather), it may just need seasoning. If it is synthetic or hybrid (synthetic inside, leather outside), then you should check for leaks where the stocks enter the bag.

This forum isn't really the place for this type of discussion. You should go to the Bob Dunsire forums, which are dedicated to the bagpipe and have an area for beginners: http://forums.bobdunsire.com/forums/index.php On the Dunsire forums, you can receive much more detailed help.

**O'Searcaigh** · 27th April 13, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by imrichmond

If you have the drones stopped up....,
This forum isn't really the place for this type of discussion. You should go to the Bob Dunsire forums, which are dedicated to the bagpipe and have an area for beginners: http://forums.bobdunsire.com/forums/index.php On the Dunsire forums, you can receive much more detailed help.

Sorry for the misplace post. I was not aware of this other site (not really a "piper"). Thanks for the information and help!

**pbutts** · 27th April 13, 12:25 PM

Welcome to the club.....you are beginning a well-worn hazing ritual.

From your post it's not clear whether you've learned a few tunes on the practice chanter yet or not. If you are trying to learn on the "octopus," I would strongly recommend you put them away for a few months and concentrate on learning several tunes on the practice chanter first. Coming from several years on the oboe, I can attest to the fact that it takes awhile to get used to playing the chanter.

My other recommendation is to get a teacher. There are several people that you'll find on the Bob Dunsire site that will do Skype lessons, and with your musical background you should progress fairly quickly....

....oh, and when you come back to the beast, you'll still experience the joyful frustrations of leaky joints, reeds that won't play nice together, etc....it's a great learning experience!

**flyrod6057** · 27th April 13, 01:38 PM

Read everything on this site:

http://www.bagpipejourney.com/

Then start messing around on this site:

http://www.bobdunsire.com/bagpipeweb/

And every question you could possibly attempt to consider asking has already been answered. Best of luck; piping is an amazing endeavor!

**Blupiper** · 27th April 13, 02:18 PM

I will second what Imrichmond has said: you have a leak in the bag. With all the stocks (those thingees the drones and chanter plug into) stoppered and inflated through the blowstick until it's drum-tight, you should have significant air in the bag for a good ten minutes or more. If you immediately begin to deflate, you have a leak. Like they said, check the stitching and where-ever a hole has been put into the bag (talking about those stocks again.) Again, seasoning or repair of a hole may be indicated. I use the Bob Dunsire Forums for a lot of institutional memory; from many pipers of all levels and experience. In these days of internet and Skype, you can get world-class instruction in front of your computer. Good luck and keep it up. I started at age 48 with a musical background very similar to that you expressed.

JMB

PS-if your bag has a zipper, be sure to check that it is properly lubed and, most important of all, closed! Learned that one the embarrassing, hard way.

**O'Searcaigh** · 27th April 13, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by pbutts

Welcome to the club.....you are beginning a well-worn hazing ritual.... it's not clear whether you've learned a few tunes on the practice chanter yet or not

Hazing indeed!

Yes, I can play several tunes on the chanter (the usual "necessaries" e.g., Amazing Grace, Scotland the Brave, a few marches, airs and hornpipes). I've spent a little over a year mastering (well on a good day) those but am having a devil of a time with "the beast" -- obviously some pneumatic/mechanical issues. I have a LOT of respect for oboists. Not an easy instrument in its own right. I sat near one in orchestra -- always several reeds in a shot glass (wished I had an excuse for a shot glass

)
Thank you for your encouragement.

**O'Searcaigh** · 27th April 13, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by flyrod6057

Read everything on this site:

http://www.bagpipejourney.com/
Then start messing around on this site:
http://www.bobdunsire.com/bagpipeweb/
And every question you could possibly attempt to consider asking has already been answered. Best of luck; piping is an amazing endeavor!

Wow, I just knew there would be folks here on Xmarks that could point me in the right direction. Thanks for the great resource links.

Originally Posted by Blupiper

PS-if your bag has a zipper, be sure to check that it is properly lubed and, most important of all, closed! Learned that one the embarrassing, hard way.

Uhhh, oh, oh, never thought of that. I guess that gives new meaning to being embarrassed because your zipper is down

No zipper in my bag. It is also a synthetic; I think it is going to turn out that I must have a leak where the chanter connection is at the bag. If only you could put the whole thing under water (like we used to do with bicycle tubes) to find the leak. Alas, a "beast" it is (they are) for sure.

**pbutts** · 27th April 13, 03:43 PM

If it turns out to be the tie-in to the bag, there's a really handy video on how to do it on the Henderson Bagpipes web site.... http://www.hendersongroupltd.com/video_bp.asp?v=7. I'd also strongly recommend a video by Jim McGillivray called Pipes Ready which covers a lot of the basics maintenance stuff that'll drive you nuts .... http://www.hendersongroupltd.com/Car...idcategory=241

Andrew Lenz's Bagpipe Journey has tons of good resources and you might find this e book helpful --http://pipehacker.com/free-ebook—starting-off/

**EagleJCS** · 27th April 13, 04:56 PM

I concur with the diagnosis - sounds like a leaky bag. It could be along the seams, one of the tie-ins, or even a small crack in one of the stocks. I know you said you've got a synthetic bag. I'm including some discussion of leather bags for the casual readers.

Putting a synthetic bag under water (briefly, just long enough to see where the air's escaping) won't hurt it a bit. I've done it to mine in the past. Do it in the tub. Just don't leave it under for more than a few (more than 10, less than 60) seconds. You need to let the air bubbles that form on the surface of the material dissipate or run your hand along the bag to brush them off. As I said - submerge it just long enough to see where the air's escaping. Wouldn't do that with a leather bag, though. With leather bags you can use soapy water and a sponge and look for bubbles forming.

For a synthetic bag, if it's a small leak along one of the seams, a little cyanoacrilate (CA) glue (Super Glue, etc.) drizzled along the seam should plug it up. If it's at one of the tie-ins, it could be a gasket is coming loose - much harder to repair. Start looking for a new bag. If it's one of the stocks, and you have wood stocks, this is the recommendation from my pipe maker: Clean the inside of the stock with a little acetone (this cleans off the wood's natural oil), then drizzle some CA glue along the crack. Let it cure, then use a little sandpaper (200 grit or higher) to smooth the repaired area. Should be good as new. For plastic (Delrin, etc.) stocks, I'd just order a new one.

For a leather bag, if the seam's leaking, re-season the bag and work the seasoning into the seams really well. If a tie-in is leaking, re-do the tie-in, then re-season the bag. If a stock is leaking, see above.

Good hunting!