The cornish kilt

[Roderick Powell]

I am a true kiltie kiltie as i wear the scottish kilt under the correct dress code, as i understand it.
Kilt makers now advertise the kilt as being supplied as a plain scottish kilt suit, made by a kilt maker.
There are claims that the black kilt was recorded as being worn by the cornish armies before the kilt was recorded as being worn by the scots. This is pretty subjective, as the scottish kilt which we wear has gone through centuries of modification.
With no continuous history, is a modern black cornish kilt authentic ?

[Jock Scot]

Gosh, no idea! I look forward to the replies on this one.

[KenB]

Good question. I'm looking forward to hearing from some of the experts on this forum enlighten us.

[macwilkin]

This subject was covered a number of years ago in at least two threads:

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...h-kilts-33489/

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...25/index2.html

Most likely, the adoption of the kilt by Cornish nationalists came around the turn of the 20th century, as mentioned in both threads.

Regards,

T.

[Pleater]

A lot depends on your definition of authentic.

If you wear a black kilt with tee shirt sandals and a brimmed leather hat in some parts of the UK you will be asked if you are a member of the mebyon kernow, or at least are from the West. The association of the black kilt and Cornwall are beyond living memory, but I would not declare it a traditional garment.

The evidence for the kilt in carvings or other depictions of men in older times could be misleading, as there was a style of doublet with cartridge pleated fabric attached to a yoke to form the skirts and sleeves which could be interpreted as a smock or shirt beneath a high rise kilt.

The highest in the land would have their doublets made from gold and silk brocade, but just possibly the lower orders would have shaped their garments to follow the style even if they did not have the swanky fabrics to make them from.

A cartridge pleat, flattened down is a box pleat, the doublet was knee length, and there are portraits of men wearing kilts with the pleats all round.

Short of obtaining a time machine or finding the journal of some one working as a fashion guide to the fifteenth century I don't think that the origins of the kilt will be discovered - what people wore in the courts and great houses might have been mentioned, though probably more in the 'these yokels wear garments styled some two decades out of date and think themselves attired a la mode' style than an actual description of the garments.

Having a passing interest in costume through the ages, I find it so infuriating that no one ever thought that in a couple of hundred years someone might really want to know just what was so amusing about the garments worn by a particular set of families, or so hideous about the clothes of the village maidens that they were commented on in letters and journals.

Anne the Pleater :oodt:

[OC Richard]

My understanding has always been that the idea of a Cornish kilt is a modern one, part of the modern idea equating kilts with Celticness which has led to Irish kilts, Welsh cilts, Breton kilts, etc.

All evidence points to the kilt evolving in the Highlands of Scotland from the ancient Irish brat, or "mantle" as English writers usually call it, a heavy woolen cloak often woven in plaid/tartan patterns, and originally having a fringe. (The tiny fringe on the kilt apron is a reminder.)

Cornwall lost whatever distinctive "Celtic" costume it might have had long ago. The Renaissance era carvings of Cornish bagpipers show ordinary English dress of the time.

I have a particular interest in Cornish things because that's where one branch of my family came from, specifically Tywardreath. My grandmother's grandparents were Cornish miners who came here to the Appalachian coal mines in the 1880s. They were baptized and married in this church



The typical Cornish tartan you always see is, in my opinion, hideous and I've struggled to invent one that's nicer. Here's the thread

http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...oncepts-59588/

I finally came up with a Cornish tartan concept I really like. I'd love to have this woven

[JonathanB]

Where's the church, OC? Blisland? I riffled through tartan samples to find something for my next kilt, and chose one just on the basis of the colour. I then find out it is "Cornish National Hunting" which pleased me as a I have vague Cornish connections.

The Cornish National is a bit off with all that mustard yellow, isn't it?

[Liam]

A lot depends on your definition of authentic.

If you wear a black kilt with tee shirt sandals and a brimmed leather hat in some parts of the UK you will be asked if you are a member of the mebyon kernow,
Anne the Pleater :oodt:

I had to google Mebyon Kernow to understand what you were referring to. Good post.

Cheers

Bill

[Spartan Tartan]

My kilt is made from the Cornish Hunting tartan. I very much like the tartan. The Cornish National has a bit too much yellow for my personal preference, but then again that is why they make the "hunting" variations to offer more options within a particular district/clan base.

My family is from St. Ives and move to the Upper Peninsula of Michigan in the 1880s. They, too, were tin miners and copper mines were abundant in the Upper Peninsula.

[OC Richard]

That church is in Tywardreath; my family left there in the 1880s. It was cool to visit their hometown! I wonder how many relatives still live there. One branch moved to South Australia and I have distant cousins (Cousin Jacks and Cousin Jennies) living there.

Here is the best depiction of a Renaissance-era Cornish piper, a contemporary carved bench-end in Altarnun Church, Bodmin Moor, Cornwall



He's wearing a typical long pleated jacket of the period. If you (using wishful thinking perhaps) turn it into a kilt, so you must with the vast number of depictions of similar jackets worn throughout England, Italy, Germany, etc during the same time period.

A similar thing happened during the Irish Revival when people mistook the leine (a shirt) for a kilt.

BTW I used to play a reproduction of that set of pipes, by Julian Goodacre.