To Box, or not to Box - that is the question...

[Orionson]

...whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of the outrageous Kilt Intelligencia - or stick with the tried and true Knife Pleat.

Sorry, Ladies & Gentlemen - just couldn't help myself.

Anyway, after nearly 50 years of happy 8 yard 18oz heavy worsted Knife Pleat experience, I am planning a new kilt in Reproduction colours based upon this tartan which was drawn to my attention in one of Matt Newsome's very informative posts. https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/1...22955015887777

I am not seeking to recreate this kilt, I simply love the colours of this MacDuff tartan. (I am a MacDuff by birth btw, so advice on entitlement is not required.)

I am intrigued by Box and double Box, and Kingussie pleated kilts. I would like to hear from anyone who wears them and what they think of them compared to the more common Knife pleated variety. I have always used Geoffrey (Tailor) for all my Highland Wardrobe needs but they "refuse to make Box pleated kilts because they don't swing the way a proper kilt should."

I am particularly keen to know what your judgement is on the swing of the box pleats etc compared to the knife pleats. I read on Lady Chrystal's site that the double box addresses the "swish & swing" problem admirably. Does anyone have personal experience of this?

Thank you in advance, for your most learned advice and commentary.

Cheers!

[Hopper250]

I have always like the Kingussie look myself. It gives a similar swing to the Knife but still is different enough that people notice.

[gwynng]

It always tickles me when some purveyor "refuses" to make something because it is just not done. They are cringing with every Utilikilt sold I am sure.

I just went out to buy thread and plan on starting a box pleat this weekend. Not enough to attempt one of Lady Chrystal's double-box inventions, but figure for a lighter and different look, it will be nice. Personally I love the clean look they have from the back.

Go for a box pleat.

[Orionson]

I see your point, re: some purveyors. However, in fairness to Geoffrey's they do a very modern and up to date line of 21st Century Kilts which includes all kind of Utilikilts and "other" alternative fabrics. They simply balked on Box pleating as a matter of principle which, I did find rather curious.

[artificer]

I've got a 'classic' 8yd knife pleat as well as a 5yd box pleat, both in ~16oz fabric.

The box pleat is a joy to wear if you'll be sitting or driving or even standing still for long periods. The huge wadge of fabric in the back ISN'T there, so you're not sitting on it. The weight is more evenly distributed.

That said, nothing beats the swish of an 8yd kilt.

If you've already got a good 8yder (and we know you do ) a different option might be nice.

ith:

[Paul Henry]

The small yardage box pleats do not move as well or as much and a good traditional knife pleated one, they simply can't as there just isn't as much cloth, I would completely agree with GT, and understand why they wouldn't want to make them.
The Kinguisse is an interesting choice, I made one for myself to see how they would work, and I first I wasn't so sure, but because the pleating is balanced in either direction the swish and swing does work well.
A military box pleated kilt does move very well , but it is a little harder on the upkeep, I haven't actually handled a double box , but because of the extra cloth it probably works well. I did experiment with a double knife pleated kilt, and it was surprisingly good, but I'm not sure it was worth the extra work!
If it came to a choice, I'd stick with a good old favourite, the traditional knife pleated kilt!

[thecompaqguy]

I'd happily box this guy...


...I'll get my coat :mrgreen:

[Kiltboy]

I've got a 'classic' 8yd knife pleat as well as a 5yd box pleat, both in ~16oz fabric.

Hey! So do I.

The box pleat is a joy to wear if you'll be sitting or driving or even standing still for long periods. The huge wadge of fabric in the back ISN'T there, so you're not sitting on it. The weight is more evenly distributed.

Yep. Couldn't agree more.

That said, nothing beats the swish of an 8yd kilt.

Another Yep.
I agree with everything, and will add.... nothing beats the heat better than a box pleat kilt.

[Nathan]

I think it's entirely up to you. If you already have a knife pleated kilt and want a box pleated kilt, go for it. Personally, after years of wearing a military box pleat, I'm quite happy with my knife pleated kilt from Papa Kilts (xman here) and wear it far more often. As mentioned, there's far less up keep.

As for the wider box pleated kilts, they remind me a little of Centurion's armour or something with the way the pleats fall. I'm not saying that's a bad thing at all, I'm just still getting used to the different aesthetic as the reveal and swish is quite different.

Anyway, it's not like you have to trade in your handsome knife pleated MacDonald tartan kilt to get a box pleated one so If you're bored of the old standby and you have the ducats to burn, why not?

[M. A. C. Newsome]

The amount of "swish and swing" you get is determined mostly by the weight of the cloth and the amount used. The heavier the kilt is in the back, the more pendulum-like motion you'll get when it moved.

Consider the heavy weight eight yard kilts you currently own. You have the two overlapping aprons in the front, and what with the hem on the apron edge, the deep pleats at the other edge of the apron, etc., you likely have about two yards, or slightly less, in the front of your kilt.

That leaves six plus yards in the back, all incorporated into the pleats. This means most of the weight of the kilt is in the rear, and it is all that weight which is swinging and swishing around when you walk.

In a four yard kilt, you still have a nominal two yards in the front, but you also have a nominal two yards in the back. This means you don't have the same "swish factor" as you do in an eight yard kilt. Note, this does not mean that the kilt has no swing and swish whatsoever. It just means it doesn't have as much as a kilt with twice the yardage. What it does have is a lot of balance. You have about the same weight in the front and in the rear which means that when you wear the thing you hardly feel it at all.

So, irrespective of box or knife pleats, a four yard kilt does not have as much swing as a six yard kilt, which does not have as much swing as an eight yard kilt, and so forth.

I have no way of knowing whether the folks at GT have an historically styled four yard box pleated kilt in mind or (more likely) a modern day eight yard military box pleated kilt, when they say the "don't swing like proper kilts." I say the latter is more likely because in my experience most of the kilt makers in Scotland are unaware of the older four yard styles.

But regardless, they are either saying the box pleated kilts worn in the twentieth century by soldiers in the Seaforth Highlanders, Argyll & Sutherland, and other regiments, were not "proper kilts"; or they are saying that the kilts worn by most Highland males, soldiers and civilians, from about 1790 through the mid-nineteenth century were not "proper kilts." Either statement is just silly, and I might add rather arrogant.

If you really love your heavy weight eight yard knife pleated kilts and want another one, go for it!

If you want to try something different and have a lighter weight, lower yardage kilt to wear, go for an old-style four yard box pleated kilt.

If you are really hesitant on the box pleated style but curious to see how you'd like a kilt with slightly less yardage, why not get a knife pleated kilt made with six yards?

Any of these are good choices.

If it were me getting these historic colors recreated, I'd go for the four yard box pleated kilt, which is the style from the same era. But it's not my kilt. :-)