Visiting Scotland: Sgian Dubh's and Do(bh)n'ts

[Chas]

This is the Law -

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/33

Paragraph 139 is the one concerning blades -

Articles with blades or points and offensive weapons

139 Offence of having article with blade or point in public place.

(1)Subject to subsections (4) and (5) below, any person who has an article to which this section applies with him in a public place shall be guilty of an offence.
(2)Subject to subsection (3) below, this section applies to any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except a folding pocketknife.
(3)This section applies to a folding pocketknife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 3 inches.
(4)It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place.
(5)Without prejudice to the generality of subsection (4) above, it shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had the article with him—
(a)for use at work;
(b)for religious reasons; or
(c)as part of any national costume.
(6)A person guilty of an offence under subsection (1) above shall be liable-
(a)on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months, or a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum, or both;
(b)on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding four years, or a fine, or both.
(7)In this section “public place” includes any place to which at the material time the public have or are permitted access, whether on payment or otherwise.
(8)This section shall not have effect in relation to anything done before it comes into force.

So, as far as the Law is concerned, if you carry a blade over 3" in length - you are guilty of an offence, except in very specific circumstances.

When in doubt - don't.

[WillowEstate]

I agree with the general consensus here, best to leave your SD at home. When I lived in the UK, I only ever wore my SD at private formal events, like weddings, where most kilt wearers did. But in general public venues, not.

I do remember a few (well, maybe a lot now!) years ago, about the time the knife carrying laws were beefed up (sadly, necessary), one of the Scottish shops in London carried facsimile SDs that were just the handle and scabbard - no blade, joined as one unit. Fake but only you would know! I can't remember which shop and I didn't buy one.

[unixken]

I do remember a few (well, maybe a lot now!) years ago, about the time the knife carrying laws were beefed up (sadly, necessary), one of the Scottish shops in London carried facsimile SDs that were just the handle and scabbard - no blade, joined as one unit. Fake but only you would know! I can't remember which shop and I didn't buy one.

Since no one but you knows it's fake, it is no less likely to cause an uncomfortable spotter to call the police. Being compelled to investigate, the police would then show up and still stop you and question you, until they determine they knife is fake. Better to not draw that kind of attention at all, as long as the populace is trained to react to the possibility of a knife. I would offer the same suggestion regarding the wearing of a sgian-bru. Those that don't know it's not a knife, will still react to it as if it were a knife.

[Jordan]

I have a Sgian Brew, didn't fancy carrying a knife around.

I've never had any problems when carrying it around. I don't wear it often but even with it not having a blade, I have been asked on a few occasions to remove it on entering certain premises.

[unixken]

...even with it not having a blade, I have been asked on a few occasions to remove it on entering certain premises.

That's my point, exactly. The law is clear and plain, and everything you do can be in full compliance. But there's nothing in the law that requires the observer to be certain the device is a real knife before getting all "edgy" about it. And as Jordan's story demonstrates, even once the other party KNOWS it's not a knife, they still regard it as a knife. It's irrational, yes. But it happens. I'd rather not set myself up to have to deal with those kinds of encounters at all, whether I'm completely in the right, or not. I'd rather spend my evening chatting with my friends, not the police.

[Roderick Powell]

sgian Dubh Alternatives We England Residents have recently been discussing the law and street problems. I feel my new Scotwebb plastic dummy sgian dubh with opal in the handle is airline and street friendly for the Tourist in Scotland.
Perhaps just buy one as a souveneer (?) From Scotland.

[gwynng]

I already have one of the fake sgian dubhs which are marketed here as "safety" SDs. Regrettably it is incredibly awful. I guess if I were to pry out the dreadful Liberace-like rhinestone and replace it with an agate or something it would make it more palatable. My bladed SD is quite lovely, formal, with a composition handle that may be pressed horn, but decent and DULL as hmmm...let's just say it is dull (...don't want to offend any fans of Terence Malick's films, but it is that dull). I have decided to leave all SDs here at home in SD (San Diego). But if I were to find a lovely one with a bog oak handle bladed or no I wouldn't say no to it coming home with me.

Cheers all!

[Jordan]

That's my point, exactly. The law is clear and plain, and everything you do can be in full compliance. But there's nothing in the law that requires the observer to be certain the device is a real knife before getting all "edgy" about it. And as Jordan's story demonstrates, even once the other party KNOWS it's not a knife, they still regard it as a knife. It's irrational, yes. But it happens. I'd rather not set myself up to have to deal with those kinds of encounters at all, whether I'm completely in the right, or not. I'd rather spend my evening chatting with my friends, not the police.

I'm afraid your missing my point. People over here arnt going to see a guy in a kilt and think "He has a knife phone the polis!"
The idea of a Sgian brew or any other kind that isnt either a dull blade or a fake blade is almost completely unknown tho. When I had mine made the guy who made it thought I was weird!
The places I've been asked to remove it have been high end bars and my local casino which have a no Sgian of any kind policy, in fact everytime I rock up in my kilt they ask just cause they have to. Even though they know me now and know I hardly wear one.

My point was that there are some places which will ask you to remove a Sgian if you have one even if it's a fancy USB drive because that's the policy. They don't care what it is, you want in you follow the rules.
However 99% of pubs /clubs and restaruants won't care until you start waving it around, then you end up talking to "Scotland's finest" for an evening.

I've also found it helps how your dressed, if you go for a smart looking outfit then you won't raise any questions (unless you wave it around like above).

However if you go for a boots and tshirt option then it's best to leave it at home, because the local bobby might enquire about the knife in your sock. (Probably with just a quick "hope that's just for show?" Depending on your attitude!)

[Katia]

I'm afraid your missing my point. People over here arnt going to see a guy in a kilt and think "He has a knife phone the polis!"

Trying again, after the board ate my post.

Anyway, I wouldn't be so sure about this. When I go out kilted (into public, not a Games or something), I am amazed by how many people comment on the sgian, farrrrr more than say anything about my attire in general. ("Is that a knife in your sock???" {those who know me well would probably be surprised that I don't go pedantic and answer, "No, but it's a sgian dubh in my kilt hose..."}). It's hard to see much in my profile pic, I know, but that'll give you an idea of how much sticks out. I'm not even sure how people know it's a knife just from that (and I doubt that many people around here are so Highland-dress savvy that they know what a sgian dubh is). People's eyes just seem to gravitate to it.

[KiltFitz]

As the original post was concerning legality, it may help to clarify: As previous replies have demonstrated, it is not illegal to wear it as part of national dress. Police officers in Scotland are well aware of this clause in the legislation as is any 1st year student of law or legal studies for that matter. I am confident that merely wearing a sgian dubh with your kilt will not lead to arrest in Scotland (or the rest of the UK for that matter).

Brandishing a sgian dubh in any reckless manner however, may lead to the police responding to a breach of the peace, and it would hardly matter whether there was a blade displayed or hidden within the sheath or no blade at all if the people around you were alarmed by it.

Just because it is not illegal doesn't mean to say that places that have some kind of general security concerns won't refuse access. They will have the right to refuse service or admission entirely at their own discretion and this would be as good a reason as any.

I wear my sgian dubh to black-tie events, traditional events such as highland games, weddings etc. It wouldn't normally accompany me to a rugby or football match or an away trip with the lads. Hope this was helpful.