Ewan McGregor Investiture Wear

[Jock Scot]

Fine, but you didn't answer my question. I know you aren't a fan of some of today's popular accessories and to be honest neither am I in some cases. Since the man were talking about is a Scot, I think we can lay aside the home advantage point as irrelevant to this example and get back to the point. Does the fact that he is wearing ghillie brogues and white hose actually make this outfit "not a lounge suit equivalent or rather is he wearing a lounge suit equivalent of which some Highland gents may not be fond?


It's not like he is wearing diced hose, patent pumps and an evening sporran...

I have thought about this for quite a while before replying, as I am aware of the rather silly "Toff" and "snob" comments being bandied about here at the moment. I am also not going to directly comment about a specific person's attire, as he may not even be a member here and did not himself ask for comment. I will say though that this person's choice of attire is his choice and will leave it at that.

Speaking generally, I consider attire such as you describe as the bog standard, general pupose, do-it-all, Jack of all trades master of none type kilt attire sold by the dozen to those, perhaps unknowing customers, who purchase this sort of attire from some pretty poorly informed, cynical even, vendors . A drop down tie for day attire, change the tie to a black bow tie and perhaps a change of shirt and you are good to go for a minor formal black tie event. It works, but not very well and and in no way would I call any of it traditional. I will also add that as lounge suit equivalent it fails to impress pretty comprehensively. However there are many in Scotland who do wear this sort of attire quite happily, but in my experiance you will find few from long term kilt wearing families dressed thus.

[Hopper250]

I have thought about this for quite a while before replying, as I am aware af the rather silly "Toff" and "snob" comments being bandied about here at the moment. I am also not going to directly comment about a specific person's attire, as he may not even be a member here and did not himself ask for comment. I will say though that this person's choice of attire is his choice and will leave it at that.

Speaking generally, I consider attire such as you describe as the bog standard, general pupose, do-it-all, Jack of all trades master of none type kilt attire sold by the dozen to those, perhaps unknowing customers, who purchase this sort of attire by some pretty poorly informed, cynical even, vendors . A drop down tie for day attire, change the tie to a black bow tie and perhaps a change of shirt and you are good to go for a minor formal black tie event. It works, but not very well and and in no way would I call any of it traditional. I will also add that as lounge suit equivalent it fails to impress pretty comprehensively. However there are many in Scotland who do wear this sort of attire quite happilly, but in my experiance you will find few from long term kilt wearing families dressed thus.

Again Jock, you educate me. I, many ads I've seen would have considered all but the belt with vest (from other threads I've read) a traditional outfit. Your insight is appriciated.

[Nathan]

Frankly I regard barathea argylls in any colour other than black with suspicion particularly when they don't have silver buttons. I don't think the cloth in isolation adds or subtracts to a jackets formality, but the jacket that you describe falls between generally accepted definitions and not something that might be worn in any circumstance that might be considered as formal.

Jock,

Thanks for taking the time to answer my multiple questions. The reason I asked about the bottle green barathea jacket was because I often see my chief Lord Macdonald of Macdonald wearing one and the local kilt shop has started carrying them. My first instinct was to view it as a tweed equivalent that might be slightly lighter weight and thus a touch more comfortable during the dog days of summer here.



I quite like the idea of two sets of buttons on a barathea Argyll. Are all of your buttons attached by rings and none sewn?

[Jock Scot]

Nathan.

Well that is a relevant point and I certainly concede that in your climate a lighter cloth, does have its uses.

My intercghangable buttons are not sewn on, they have round "split rings". I found that finding plastic buttons with attached "eyes" a tad tricky, but when I found some, I bought four sets. A member here and I am afraid I cannot remember who, took up the two sets idea and attached very successfully some rings to the buttons to do the same job of poking through the cloth for the split rings to be attached and I seem to recall that he was pleased with the result.

[CMcG]

I'm a little late to the party on this one, but I'd still like to add a few thoughts.

Ewan McGregor was born and raised in the Perth area. There are plenty of photos of him wearing the kilt, including one showing him and his father together, both in kilts (LINK).


From what a quick Googling shows, he seems comfortable wearing the kilt from street wear to black tie:



My point is that he is no newbie kilt wearer and he has some options in his wardrobe. I take Jock's word for it that Mr. McGregor isn't dressed particularly traditional. My analysis of his outfit is that it is, instead, fairly conventional by the standards of the Highland attire industry.

I think this speaks to the power of commerce and marketing. For many folks, even in Scotland, McGregor's outfit is probably quite correct, even if it isn't 100% traditional. It would appear as a suit equivalent, hence why he wore it. I don't see his outfit as having much, if any, artistic leanings.

Notice, however, that his outfit isn't on the cutting edge of what kilt retail/hire is pushing. He is wearing an outfit that has been established by the Highland attire industry over time, though his choice of a charcoal jacket (instead of lovat green or blue) is bit more au courant. If he had really just walked into a kilt shop and had the sales/hire assistant dress him, he might have looked like this image from The Wedding Hire Company:


Or the one from kilthire.com:


Personally, I prefer what Alan Cumming wore to his OBE investiture ceremony, which I find a bit more interesting because of its personal flair. It isn't 100% traditional either, but is it more or less THCD than McGregor's?


If it were me, I probably would have worn something more like this:

[Jock Scot]

CMcG.

Do you know, I think there is a generational, cultural, experiance lacking(sorry but it is true), international, definition block going on here. Neither is wrong as such if we consider where the attire is being worn, but it seems very obvious to me that you chaps are not seeing what I see. Let me explain.

None of Mr McGregor's pictures in your post, or Mr Cumming's attire would be considered as traditional in Scotland. Distinctly smart in their own way, of that there is no doubt, but modern. The attire being worn and what it consists of are very fine examples of the modern way kilt attire can and is worn by the younger age group in Scotland and is a regular sight throughout Scotland on the right occassion. I hasten to add that this sort of attire is no more everyday attire than the pure traditional version of kilt attire.

Does it matter? Well yes it does, if we are trying to define things correctly for future referance.

[CMcG]

CMcG.

Do you know I think there is a generational, cultural, experiance lacking, international, definition block going on here. Neither is wrong as such, but it seems very obvious to me. Let me explain.

None of Mr McGregor's pictures in your post, or Mr Cumming's attire would be considered as traditional in Scotland. Distinctly smart in their own way, of that there is no doubt, but modern. The attire being worn and what it consists of are very fine examples of the modern way kilt attire can and is worn by the younger age group in Scotland and is a regular sight throughout Scotland on the right occassion. I hasten to add that this sort of attire is no more everyday attire than the pure traditional version of kilt attire.

Jock,

We've been in dialogue long enough that I got what you were saying, even without the succinct re-statement Thanks, though, for making it even more plain

Reading through this thread, it seemed perhaps that it might not be as clear to other folks. My commentary and examples were not aimed at you, but rather the new guys who are hanging around Xmarks. Some of them have recently voiced confusion about the possibility of wearing the kilt in a way that isn't straight & narrow THCD, but could still be appropriate for a given occasion. I was just trying to position McGregor as a decent example of how some people do that in Scotland.

[Jock Scot]

Sorry Colin you know how it is on this website, if things are not made abundantly clear then someone is bound to misunderstand! Whilst I did address my post to you in my previous post as pictures were posted by you in your post. You are right though, my post is intended for all interested parties and like you I was very much bearing in mind a gaggle of newcomers that certainly do appear to be confused over this.

In fact this thread is a very interesting one and is actually in danger of, perhaps/possibly/maybe identifying the cause of this seemingly eternal problem of this constant posting of "traditional" kilt attire by someone and me and others saying, "Oh no its not". Its getting tiresome and rather pantomime-esque. So actually, I hope many others from your side of the pond in particular may read the above post , think hard without I hope taking umbrage(it happens!) and perhaps/possibly/maybe have a light bulb moment.

[Shedlock2000]

Jock,




I quite like the idea of two sets of buttons on a barathea Argyll. Are all of your buttons attached by rings and none sewn?

I have seen this type of plaid on a number of photos. Clearly it is different than a fly plaid. Does it have a different name, and what is the purpose of the distinction (i.e. when would you wear such a plaid, and why).

[Shedlock2000]

Jock,

We've been in dialogue long enough that I got what you were saying, even without the succinct re-statement Thanks, though, for making it even more plain

Some of them have recently voiced confusion about the possibility of wearing the kilt in a way that isn't straight & narrow THCD,

THCD?

I am not too sure what this means....

When I posted this picture, I was certainly did not think Ewan to look unsightly - just that a number of the elements of his attire were not what I would have expected for an investiture.

Now, given my lack of exactness in understanding Highland attire etiquette, I would like to know:

1) Why are white hose so unpopular
2) What is the correct height below the belt (if worn) of the sporran), and if no belt - does the height change to suit the waistcoat?
3) Considering the formalities of an investiture - were one to wear a traditional outfit for the occasion, what should it consist of? (I have seen Jamie's excellent 10 ways to wear the kilt - but investiture was not one of those occasions suggested!) Specifically - what sort of jacket would one recommend for an investiture - My guess would be a sheriff Muir or a black Barathea argyle?
4) Much has been said about shoes - am I to guess that plain oxford toes or brogues in a black or brown would have sufficed (presumably depending upon the colour of the jacket and sporran).

With respect to Alan Cumming's outfit. I think that I see this as a natural progression of Highland clothing (which has not really altered terribly much over the last 100 years). Now, I am the sort of person, that if I were famous enough to be honoured at the palace, I would likely follow Mr Cumming's lead (though I can assure you the boots would match the sporran! URGH). That said, if I were not able to afford one of Howie's delightful creations, then I think I would resort to traditional clothing - but worn to its pinnacle of perfection..... But that is just the years in the Army still guiding my behaviour.