Need Advice on car repair! (no guys in my house)

[Silk]

Hi, my Mom and I share a car (a 2002 Base Cavalier 5 speed) and the clutch began to misbehave last night. Took it in to a garage today to see what they think and they said it has to be replaced and this is the estimate they emailed to us:


Services Requested

Clutch Assembly - Replace


Remove and Replace components as required to access and install materials, and/or perform needed service, adjustments
as required. Additional fluids may be required to complete this service. Retest and verify repair as required. Perform
final road test where applicable.

Machine Shop 1.00 Units $75.00 / Unit $75.00 H
Clutch Disc/plate/set 1.00 Units $656.67 / Unit $656.67 H
1 LITRE - Brake Fluid 1.00 Units $14.99 / Unit $14.99 H
Labour 6.50 hrs. $86.00 / hr. $559.00 H

Sub $1,305.66
(E) Environmental Disposal Charge $2.98 Each $2.98 H
(H) Canadian Harmonized Sales Tax (HST) 13 % $170.12

Totals $1,478.76

Since I don't have a father or brothers, I'm hoping some of the fellows on here can advise as to whether this sounds reasonable? We honestly can't afford this much and would likely have to give up the car if this is really how much it will take to replace the clutch. We're in Canada by the way if you didn't notice the HST in the estimate.

Silk

[Pleater]

Just go to another garage and ask the same thing - don't mention the other estimate or garage, or any aspect of the repair they suggested.

You could even try two other garages, if there are enough around.

Recently I needed some paintwork repaired, the one estimate was over twice the other. The cheaper one did the work perfectly, plus they brought me home and delivered the car back which the other garage could not do, when I enquired.

If you get a really cheap one, ask what it is they mean to do for the money before deciding it is a bargain.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[Hopper250]

I agree with Pleater. My dad, who works in a shop, recomends getting 3-4 estimates, all in writting. Since you have a 2002 you can easily get an estimate from a dealer also, their price will many times be higher, but it does provide a good base line for what needs to be done.

The reason the dealer is a better baseline for the work needed is that they are less likely to increase the cost with random increases (they usually get audited by the manufacturer).

I would suggest 2-3 locals, get a Midas/Tires Plus, and a dealer quote. Once you have those let us know the costs and we can provide better advice.

[Silk]

We can't really drive it around. It was pretty hard to get it to the shop today, I think we'd be risking getting stuck on the road if we try to drive it any more.

[ForresterModern]

try the big box transmission sites, then a couple mom and pop shops, and you will be amazed at the variance in service and price for the same work. IMHO the big box places stay in business due to advertising and high prices, while the mom and pops stay in business because they do good work at a reasonable price and get return customers and word of mouth referrals.

[bluebonnet]

Call your local CAA office and ask to speak to the tech person who approves the garages for a CAA thumbs up. CAA approved garages follow a set standand for repairs and customer service. Ask the CAA if a) the garage you went to is approved, b) have there been any complaints, c) is this type of repair within the rate book that sets out what a job should take to do. They might be able to help you out with some solid recommendations on who to go to and how much to expect to pay.

At least if you use a CAA approved garage and things go south with your repairs you have some recourse to get the CAA to mediate a solution or a fix/refund.

As an aside, I had a clutch repair done about 15 years ago and the going rate back then (on a domestic model) was about 1500.00 (in Ontario). Make sure you qualify whether the estimate is held to a certain percentage of over charge - usually within 10%. Some garages will lowball the estimate and then charge up when they get the job. Make sure you get it in writing that they will hold to a 10% increase and if they have to go up, they require your permission to proceed. This will help you to avoid a bigger than you expected bill when you pick the car up.

You have the work that this garage will do, you don't need to take the car in to another garage, all you have to do is inquire what they would charge for the same job etc.

hth

[unixken]

You have the work that this garage will do, you don't need to take the car in to another garage, all you have to do is inquire what they would charge for the same job etc.

Agreed. Clutch plates are internal components of the transmission. There's no "fixing" worn plates, short of replacing them. (When the need replaced, they need replaced.) A shop shouldn't need to "see" the car in order to quote internal parts they can't see until they actually open up the clutch.

The labor rate sounds about right, and the number of hours depends largely on whether they can get the clutch apart without first having to remove a half dozen other components just to gain access to it.

With all of that said, I googled a few repair cost estimating sites, and using my own postal code ("zip code") to localize the estimate, the estimates ranged from $1361 to $1922, with labor ranging from $616-$786 and parts from $745-$1136.

These numbers were in U.S. Dollars, but the exchange rate is pretty close at the moment ($1 US is $1.03 CDN).

The cost you were quoted sounds right at the low end of the middle-ground of the estimates I pulled from a couple web sites.

[CameronCat]

Hi

Obviously, getting other estimates is a necessity, as is taking the car in to be seen. Why?-- perhaps, just maybe, the car doesn't need the clutch replaced. There are other items that will make the clutch misbehave. Another shop might just find a leaking clutch hydraulic system or a pin out of the pedal linkage, both repairable at much less cost. Sooner or later, any manual car WILL need a new clutch but often apparent failures are elsewhere.

If it does in fact require a new clutch, there are 3 critical parts--make sure each is on the estimate. They are the clutch (friction disc), the pressure plate (or "fingers") and a small center bearing (called the "throw-out bearing" because it takes the load when the clutch is thrown-out or disengaged.) Many places will not replace the bearing (it's maybe a $20 part...) to save money, and that's a false economy. Since it has to come out during the repair anyway, not replacing it is borrowing trouble for later because when the bearing wears out, the trans has to come out again to get at it. Not all clutch kits include the bearing; make sure you ask.
Additionally, I see on the orig. estimate that the flywheel (the part the clutch squeezes against) will be sent to the machine shop for refinishing or truing. That is not always necessary, and some manufacturers actually recommend against it. Ask the shop if they will measure or "spec" the flywheel before they remove it and if it is within spec to not send it out for refacing. If they say "Sorry, we reface every one regardless" you may want to shop elsewhere...no one rule fits all cars. Ever. Period.
Any reputable shop will be happy to discuss this with you, and if you ask, most likely show you the recommended procedure and parts list. Do not be afraid to ask for substantiation of stated "facts."


>> Somebody said: "Clutch plates are internal components of the transmission."
Sorry, they absolutely are not on a manual trans. (It is true for automatics, but that's a different type of clutch.) On a manual trans, the clutch is external to the transmission, although the trans must be removed for access.

>> Somebody else said: "A shop shouldn't need to "see" the car in order to quote internal parts they can't see until they actually open up the clutch."

Trust me: Calling a shop and asking for a quote over the phone WILL get you the cold shoulder. It wastes the shop's time for no real gain. I worked once in a family-run independent shop. The founder, "Pops" (aren't they all?) had a standard response to estimates over the phone, and he strongly encouraged its use. Didn't matter if it was two light bulbs or an engine rebuild: "Estimate is $800--could be more, could be less."
Today, most shops will politely refuse to give any estimates without seeing the car.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

JT, ASE, SAE

[tulloch]

Looks about right to me from my experience. Call Car Talk - 888-227-8255. If they can't help at least they'll leave you laughing.

[TowGuy]

bluebonnet has some good advice there. As an employee for CAA (Emergency Roadside Service Tech), I can say the CAA approved garages are a good bet for getting a good honest quote. You will have the support of CAA if there is a dispute. Around my area a clutch installed should run around $800.00 or less from a transmission shop with a good reputation. The quote seems high, most of those cars have a hydraulic clutch system that will leak over time and the slave cylinder is usually the part that fails, not the whole clutch. (18 years with CAA and 12 years as a mechanic)

Call your local CAA office and ask to speak to the tech person who approves the garages for a CAA thumbs up. CAA approved garages follow a set standand for repairs and customer service. Ask the CAA if a) the garage you went to is approved, b) have there been any complaints, c) is this type of repair within the rate book that sets out what a job should take to do. They might be able to help you out with some solid recommendations on who to go to and how much to expect to pay.

At least if you use a CAA approved garage and things go south with your repairs you have some recourse to get the CAA to mediate a solution or a fix/refund.

As an aside, I had a clutch repair done about 15 years ago and the going rate back then (on a domestic model) was about 1500.00 (in Ontario). Make sure you qualify whether the estimate is held to a certain percentage of over charge - usually within 10%. Some garages will lowball the estimate and then charge up when they get the job. Make sure you get it in writing that they will hold to a 10% increase and if they have to go up, they require your permission to proceed. This will help you to avoid a bigger than you expected bill when you pick the car up.

You have the work that this garage will do, you don't need to take the car in to another garage, all you have to do is inquire what they would charge for the same job etc.

hth