Sgian Dhu Ban for Bannockburn 2014

**Walter82** · 29th July 13, 06:10 PM

They are bring together thousands of Scots, on a battlefield and all of whom will be bringing a wee dram or two in celebration of the humiliation of the English and they are worried about a dull blade the length of a thumb. Go figure.
Must have been and interesting meeting to decide that, certainly no one from Glasgow was present.

The website says (http://battleofbannockburn.com/ticke...urn-live-faqs/):

"Please note that alcohol and bottled drinks over 500ml are NOT permitted into the arena."

So bottles up to 500 ml are permitted! They seem to assume a knife the size of a wee vegetable peeler is the more likely weapon of choice for a drunk scot than a broken 500ml bottle.

More from the site:
"Can I wear national dress and period costume at the event? Yes of course! But please be advised that weaponry, including weaponry associated with costume, and any sharp objects are not permitted into the event arena. Only authorized participating re-enactors will be permitted to carry replica weaponry within the re-enactment village only."

So please dont bring your Kilt pin unless you are a re-enactor then you can bring a broad sword. The wording seems to equate National Dress with Costume.

If in doubt about what you might wear they say:

"What should I wear?
Bannockburn Live is an outdoor, green field event in Scotland. Think practical and wear appropriate clothing and footwear for a Scottish summer! Fingers crossed for good weather but as we know, Scottish summer weather can change hourly with a mix of glorious sunshine or summer showers. Layering is best and something waterproof is advisable, as is stout footwear. You may even need to bring sunscreen."

Billy Connelly would have a field day with this lot.

"I've always wanted to go to Switzerland to see what the army does with those wee red knives."
Billy Connolly

**Hawk** · 29th July 13, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

The police have made it quite clear in the article that when carried with Scots National attire, then a SD is entirely legal(certainly in Scotland and I think, in the whole of the UK). So one can only agree with the fellow who said the organisers idea over SDs was "absurd". However is it really going to ruin some one's day if they don't carry a SD? Yes, yes, I know full well there is the "give an inch they will take a mile" aspect. I would have thought though, that those who are organising the event would have had far more important matters to consider.

And, in addition, every Clan Leader, on Letterhead, should forward a strong message to the organizing head that this whole notion is absurd and the clans will be following Highland and Scot Law and be attending fully "properly attired"......

Hawk

**Downunder Kilt** · 29th July 13, 08:17 PM

It seems what a lot of folks are out of kilter with here is, that this is a ticketed event, much like going to the football, cricket, baseball, nightclub, whatever and the organisers have the right to put certain conditions upon entry to the event. It does not matter if something is allowd by law, if the organisers don't want to allow it, they are quite entitled to blackball it. Sure it might be silly, but just like a multitude of other venues around the world, if you don't want to abide by the conditions of entry, then don't attend.

**English Bloke** · 29th July 13, 08:55 PM

Couldn't agree more DK. It's a significant event and by it's very nature, emotions are likely to run high. It will make Policing considerably easier without armfuls of knives in attendance.

We sensible X-Marker types likely would not cause an issue. I certainly wouldn't... but some numpty might and that's one too many.

It probably seems incongruous to us to consider a decorative Sgian as a potential weapon but as I keep reminding people, knife crime is a major problem in certain areas of the UK, particularly among younger folk who may not have the wisdom and control of the older and more experienced.

Better prohibition and zero tolerance than deep regret in hindsight. Safety first an' all that. And is it really such a hardship?

Wear one of these... Shop around and you can get one for less than 20 quid.

Picture borrowed from kiltswihae.co.uk

**English Bloke** · 29th July 13, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by Peter Lowe

... it ill fits an organisation that looks to support Scotland's heritage ...

... they are branding the wearers of national dress as security risks ...

... if there is evidence that kilt wearers are involved in a significant amount of knife crime. I have asked if there are statistics on this - if not where is the risk...

Peter, much as I agree with your sentiment, I don't think it's the kilt wearers that are the worry.

Having just had a crackin' Saturday out in York while kilted, but with the precaution of being sgian dubh free, I was at one point accosted by a young English chap who was not exactly sober. He was heavily tattooed, enormously over weight and sporting the Doc Marten boots, turned up jeans, white tee-shirt, braces and shaven head of a 1970's skinhead. He demanded of me

"Oiy Jock? Where's yer f***in' sock dagger?".

Had I been wearing one, I surmise I may have had to fight him for possession of it.

The issue is not that wearers of National Dress at Bannockburn 2014 might be wearing sgians, it will be the fact that items that are ostensibly knives (legal or not), could be easily lifted by unsavoury types who are not there for the fuzzy warm feeling of National pride that the event should engender.

The event is a celebration of a famous victory against the auld enemy. It is also taking place on the eve of an opportunity for those who may be of such persuasion to permanently separate themselves politically from said enemy.

It's also feasible that some in attendance may wish take it as an opportunity to unofficially re-enact the original confrontation and a 75cl bottle of Buckfast and a stolen sgian dubh can only make that objective simpler.

If you are in doubt that passions could run so high, please review this precedent from the 2006 World Cup, where in Scotland, a seven year old child and a disabled man were attacked on separate occasions. The Borders and Lothian Police described the attack on the boy as "cowardly and pathetic". I have to agree with that conclusion but it doesn't detract from the fact that a 34 year old Scotsman was so incensed by the sight of an England shirt that he thought it appropriate to beat up a child.

Imagine the outcome of this type of prejudice repeated... but with a blade or a broken wine bottle being handy.

And if knives are still not an issue, why are our coppers all wearing these nowadays?

Not having a go at you my friend. But I'm on the side of the people who have to maintain control without being heavy handed. I don't think it's a big ask for attendees to co-operate.

**BCAC** · 29th July 13, 11:15 PM

Well said, John! For some reason I have no "aye" button this morning so + 1 anyway!

**English Bloke** · 29th July 13, 11:16 PM

Post withdrawn by EB.

**Peter Lowe** · 30th July 13, 12:36 AM

[QUOTE=English Bloke;1184762]Peter, much as I agree with your sentiment, I don't think it's the kilt wearers that are the worry.

The point is that carrying knives is illegal and the authorities can confiscate them (and if necessary arrest you) UNLESS you are, in this instance, wearing Highland Dress when a Sgian Dubh is legal. Hence my comment abour kilt wearers being branded as security risks.

As you and others have pointed out objects that are not banned can easily be turned into nasty weapons so where is the safety in that?

The authorities profile people and I would suggest that the the profile of a kilt wearer is low risk and law abiding. They certainly are way lower risk than a drunk in charge of an empty 500ml bottle.

A simple request not to wear a Sgian Dubh would solve the problem in the case of a very high proportion of kilt wearers thus making this very low risk.

Finally if the ban on sharp objects extends to kilt pins then they really are demeaning us!

Peter

**English Bloke** · 30th July 13, 04:48 AM

Fair enough...

By the way, as far as I can ascertain, kilt pins aren't banned. The only internet reference I can find for the suggestion is from within this thread.

**Walter82** · 30th July 13, 04:56 AM

Originally Posted by English Bloke

Fair enough...

By the way, as far as I can ascertain, kilt pins aren't banned. The only internet reference I can find for the suggestion is from within this thread.

I understand the sentiment and like many here don't usually wear one when it might become an issue, sticking to private events indoors. That's a choice I make. As for kilt pins which are deemed sharp objects for air travel it's clear they fall within the organizers definition:
" and any sharp objects are not permitted into the event arena. "