Tartan Etiquette

[Jock Scot]

Perhaps (as it seems to me at least), roots in Europe are less of an importance for Europeans, where as roots transplanted are transplanted into shallower soil. History here is not the same as history there, simply due to the timeframe.

I have only once stood on land and been able to think "this is where my ancestors came from" and even then, just for a few days. To be steeped in history, and in your ancestry must be a powerful thing, but it doesn't translate to the Antipodes.

Cheers,

Cameron

In my distant youth I was ploughing fields at Gommecourt in Northern France. Somewhere in those very fields lies a relative of mine who amongst so many others has no known grave that were killed there on July 1st 1916. Now that was a twist of circumstance and really gave one a strange feeling!

[Antipodean Celt]

Perhaps (as it seems to me at least), roots in Europe are less of an importance for Europeans, where as roots transplanted are transplanted into shallower soil. History here is not the same as history there, simply due to the timeframe.

I have only once stood on land and been able to think "this is where my ancestors came from" and even then, just for a few days. To be steeped in history, and in your ancestry must be a powerful thing, but it doesn't translate to the Antipodes.

Cheers,

Cameron

I know exactly what you mean Cameron. Australia is an ancient land, and I can sense it sometimes, particularly in the landscape. But our human institutions and culture are entirely transplanted from Europe and my people have been here for a mere blink of an eye compared to the indigenous people. My home is about 100 years old and that is old for Brisbane. To stand on European soil in front of a cathedral that has stood for more than 1000 years blows my little antipodean mind.

[Antipodean Celt]

Edit: Not sure when this trip to Aus will occur. Unfortunately I wouldn't be allowed to go alone and would have to bring the rest of my Tribe, which would be prohibitively expensive. But we shall see, maybe one day.

Whenever you decide to come to Orstralya EB, you will be assured of a warm welcome from the Aussie XMTS members. Just let us know when you make the plunge!

[Manxstralian]

I know exactly what you mean Cameron. Australia is an ancient land, and I can sense it sometimes, particularly in the landscape. But our human institutions and culture are entirely transplanted from Europe and my people have been here for a mere blink of an eye compared to the indigenous people. My home is about 100 years old and that is old for Brisbane. To stand on European soil in front of a cathedral that has stood for more than 1000 years blows my little antipodean mind.

100 years? Where do you live? I lived on the south side (Annerley, Woolloongabba etc) for 12 years before I came down to Melbourne. My current house was built in 1886, which makes it one of the oldest in North Melbourne, but when I was in Scotland, I stood next to a standing stone that was 3000 years old on midsummers eve... that was an amazing experience, and one I hope to repeat.

[Jock Scot]

Jock,------







I would guess that there are folk within Scotland who are equally passionate about their heritage outwith Scotland compared to people outwith Scotland who are passionate about their Scottish heritage, sir.






A big dram for you, my friend.

Thank you for your kind remarks and I hear what you say. Actually the paragraph that I have saved from your post goes to the very heart of what I have been trying to say.

I am not sure that there are those within Scotland that are that passionate about their heritage outwith Scotland , with the possible exception of historians, but possibly a few with a passing interest. Assuming that the "passionate ones" must exist and I can't say that I have come accross one yet, then they appear do it far more quietly and in a less high profile way than the vistors from outwith Scotland manage to do. Neither is wrong and it is a matter of degree, but it is that amount of degree that is very noticeable with the visitors here.

[Father Bill]

Jock, many of us have tried (pouring our hearts on our sleeves for your benefit with great personal pain) to explain this to you, and I respectfully understand that you don't. (Understand, that is.) I really, really don't want to get into it deeply because it's all quite upsetting and emotional.

You have however, not only raised the topic again, but have given a clue that might be useful to me in once again trying to explain this to you and I offer this simply because it might help you to overcome your confusion with us "colonials": You say you aren't interested in your Norman roots, possibly because they're too distant. To you it's a passing oddity. Well, many of us here aren't as interested in our North American roots as those further and farther away... because they're too shallow, only a generation or so, and in some cases, not even that. Roots are, to the individual, what they feel.

I'm delighted that you can take pleasure in your Scottish connection, but please recognize kindly the feelings and emotions of those whose pleasure is in an unsure, misty, or different connection to a place other than where they live. When they don't even know with certainty what that place is, you must concede that it could be a confusing and unsettling set of feelings for them.

My personal very mixed metaphor: I love Canadian cuisine, but I'm delighted that my wife is European born and cooks marvellous European cuisine because my upbringing was with meals cooked by a surprisingly (especially for her day!) multi-cultural British mother, cooking for my European father. The parallel: I am a fiercely proud Canadian and love my culture, but I also love the "scent" of my distant cultural roots, and not just the cuisine. I long to taste that culture as much as the cuisine, a culture that in so many ways seems lost to me.

Meanwhile, I barbecue steaks Canadian style and enjoy them fiercely... but I also love a good haggis when I can get it. Yes, I'm Canadian, through and through, but I also enjoy the stories, the cuisine, the history, and the dress of my not really so very distant ancestors on both sides of my family, which, except for greater Europe as a common anchor could not be more different.

Many (dare I say most?) Canadians cleave strongly to that particular habit as part of Canadian culture - to know our roots. As I have pointed out previously, that is even Government policy and law.

I moved to this street last November when the bishop moved me back to London. To date I have met neighbours of no less than eight extremely distinct national backgrounds of the ten neighbours whose background I can identify. Living in the United Nations as it were, guess what we talk about! It's our roots, differences, and similarities of course.

Living in a more unified and identifiable culture, of course you don't talk about it much. We do, and it becomes emotionally important and sensitive to many of us.

Let's let it drop.

[Antipodean Celt]

100 years? Where do you live? I lived on the south side (Annerley, Woolloongabba etc) for 12 years before I came down to Melbourne. My current house was built in 1886, which makes it one of the oldest in North Melbourne, but when I was in Scotland, I stood next to a standing stone that was 3000 years old on midsummers eve... that was an amazing experience, and one I hope to repeat.

Salisbury. Just south if Annerley. House built in 1917 and one of the original farm houses in the area. But there is nothing built in Queensland more than 200 years old. 1886 is ancient by Qld standards.

[Jock Scot]

Actually Bill, once again you appear determined to misunderstand what I am saying, not only that, you are putting words into my mouth and that is not helpful. I have never said that I am not interested in my Norman roots, I most definately am and all of my roots. You are trying to make an issue out of something that I certainly dont intend. All I have pointed out quite nicely that it is the degree and "volume" of knowing about our ancestors that noticably differs from those outwith Scotland.Nothing more.

[Father Bill]

What a sad and disappointing response to a heartfelt attempt to be helpful.

[Antipodean Celt]

Actually Bill, once again you appear determined to misunderstand what I am saying, not only that, you are putting words into my mouth and that is not helpful. I have never said that I am not interested in my Norman roots, I most definately am and all of my roots. You are trying to make an issue out of something that I certainly dont intend. All I have pointed out quite nicely that it is the degree and "volume" of knowing about our ancestors that noticably differs from those outwith Scotland.Nothing more.

Gents, if I may. I think all many posters are saying in response to your observation Jock (which i think is a correct observation) is that intensity of feeling about one's origins generally increases in proportion to remoteness from origins, both in distance and in time. I don't think that is at all surprising. I also think it is entirely human and is not solely the province of people with highland Scottish ancestry. I think Father Bill is simply disappointed that you do not seem to understand that. Does that assist?