Other Cultures With Kilts

[Grae]

Very interesting thanks for posting you have increased my interest in the South West of the US

[Laird_M]

Yes and first used by Europeans thinking they had found India. I haven't heard of the Asian variety complaining that North American aboriginals are called Indians.

Well, the majority of 'Asians' don't consider themselvs as Indian anyway - Pakistanii, Hyderabadi, etc, and then of course there is the distinction between the main area 'Indians' and the Singhalese, Taiwanese, etc who are cumpled under 'Asian'.

And no Eastern Asian who wears a sarong (or its various ethnic variations) would call it a kilt. Its a sarong which is a tube of material you step into, is folded into three and knotted at the front and can be as long as a 'hostess' dress. A lot cooler than a kilt, but not as easy to wear (I have three). If you don't learn how to fold the knot properly, going 'commando' is not an option...

[gordontaos]

Very interesting thanks for posting you have increased my interest in the South West of the US

Having lived in virtually area of the US, I am shocked at how much this area intrigues me. Rarely exceeds 90F, low humidity, right now there is a few feet of snow just 20 minutes from here, a continuous European history that goes back to 1609, and an indigenous history that extends back at least 10,000 years.
Oh, and also a 61 year old redheaded guy that struts around in a kilt every chance he gets, opera, theater,great restaurants and fantastic (if slightly flawed) museums.

[Kilted Craanen]

Sweet, thanks for showing that - it's always interesting to see how other cultures dress/used to dress himself. I'm also a little confused by the comments here. This dude simply goes 'oh why, would you look at that. Some other culture also has a variety of skirt for their clothing. I'm sure not many people know that, so I'll share it!' and everyone goes into a heated debate about what it is because it's 'definately not a kilt'. It's an interesting piece of clothing that somewhat resembles a kilt and that was his point..

[Laird_M]

there's no "heated debate", just comments about the mis-labelling of the item by the museum. The OP always posts great images which we all enjoy.

[gordontaos]

I have gathered additional information which may add to the debate or conundrum. I was chatting with a friend of mine from Taos Pueblo. The people of Taos Pueblo are considered by many to be amongst the most religious and traditional of all of the American Indian Tribes. It is against their tribal law to translate their language or speak about their traditions. Some who have done so have been banned from the Tribe.
I asked him, "You know that thing that you wear around your waist when you are in a particularly religious period"? He interjected with the response. "It's a wrap or a kilt". I said, "Do you guys really call them kilts"? He said that they did and related the following three short stories to me.
1-The local Spanish ladies know that they have nothing under the garment, and often remark about that.
2- He was recently in Dallas and wore one downtown, along with his moccasins and his hair was in braids. He was amazed at the reaction of the public.
3-His partner is an internationally recognized designer and on a recent TV program wanted to do a project involving a kilt, since he was wearing one daily at the time due to religious/traditional circumstances. Her fellow designers could not believe it, so the idea was vetoed.
In relating all of these stories he called the unbifurcated garment a kilt.

So, if the people who wear the garment call it a kilt, if the Museum calls it a kilt, if people react to it the same way some react to kilts...Is it a kilt?
I know that the dictionary specifically says that kilts have pleats and tartans, but does the dictionary need updating? Especially since some of our kilts are not made of tartan material?

[Downunder Kilt]

As you said in your post Gordon, they are not allowed to translate their language, so obviously the word they actually use does not mean kilt. My opinion is that they have adopted an english word that maybe close, but not an exact translation so as to avoid allegations that they have broken tribal law. There are many languages where there is no direct translation to an english word and they pick something close. A famous saying in many asian countries is " same, same but different"

[gordontaos]

Ahhh I am very familiar with same same but different from my time in the Philippines, or was it Thailand?

[Hawk]

In the over 1500 distinct indigenous languages in this country, there is no direct translation to that or any other "indigenous" ceremonial type item, as a "kilt". The word itself, "kilt", and the language in which I am typing now, are all of foreign and non-indigenous origin, so even the gentleman from the Taos Pueblo in answering you, referred to it as something that one non-indigenous could relate to, simply a "kilt".
Also, note here, that many tribal citizens do not know much about their own "traditional language" and even sometimes their own history, let alone other indigenous terms, unique to each tribal nation, so somewhere in translation a common term explaining something is used, such as the case probably with the term "kilt".

If it does, to many, look like a kilt, so instead of trying a whole history lesson before coming to a obscure conclusion, I can see why a tribal person would simply refer to it as such to the common non-indigenous public.

conclusion - all us Natives don't always agree on much.......but unless someone in their own community uses their own dialect, then in guess we can simply agree that it looks like a "kilt"......eh?

Thank you gordontaos for continuing the discussion tho, it's always interesting to hear what people think....

Hawk