so this is what we've come to? (Prince Charlie)

[Carlo]

Another point we tend to forget is, that many of us would never have come close to consider buying anything as formal as a PC 75 years ago.

[andycwb]

This image perfectly encapsulates what, to me, is the decline in elegance of Evening Dress.

-ruche tie
-belt showing under waistcoat
-white hose with evening dress
-shoes lacking buckles with evening dress
-tartan flashes
-added bonus: sgian in wrong leg

Ruche tie, belt, white hose: totally agree.

Personally, I think in modern times that ostentatious buckles aren't quite right, and I would wear plain black shoes to an evening event with or without the kilt.

Tartan flashes add a nice touch of colour, and I always wear them unless being informal.

As for the sgian in the wrong leg, how do you know which hand is dominant?

For me, the ostentatious shoulder plaid and matchy-matchy tie is what ruins this. Just the jacket, bow tie, and, yeah, cream hose, and he would have looked very elegant.

Andy

[andycwb]

Loose the fly plaid?
Change out the tie for something more traditional? Bow tie?
Pull the kilt up to show more knee and get the belt up where it doesn't show?
Loose the muppet sporran and replace it with?
Darker hose?
I'll go with him being left handed so leave the sgian where it is.
Men's shoes I have not much knowledge of.....

Loose the fly plaid? - Yes
Change out the tie for something more traditional? Bow tie? - Yes
Pull the kilt up to show more knee and get the belt up where it doesn't show? - Yes, and drop the belt completely
Loose the muppet sporran and replace it with? - Dress sporran, sliver grey fur and silver cantle.
Darker hose? - cream, doesn't need to be black.
I'll go with him being left handed so leave the sgian where it is. - Agreed, but if he's right-handed, stab him with it.
Men's shoes I have not much knowledge of..... - Keep the ghillies, or plain dress black.

And, for me, the turn-down on the hose is too much as well... should be half of that.

[Nathan]

Warning: I'm a contrarian and while I love a more traditional Highland Fashion, I don't really like snobbery so feel the need to defend the modern style.

Here's the thing. This guy's style isn't to my preference exactly, but he's the one that is in current style and I'm the one that is dressing in a dated fashion. Fashion is abitrary. Let me say that again. Fashion. Is. Arbitrary.

Matching is in here, and out there. Blue and brown are dashing here and dreadful there. Different patterns clashing are a no no here and the sign of a gentleman there. Wide lapels, narrow lapels, two button, three button, surgeon's cuffs, pocket squares, thin ties, thick ties, neru jackets, pinstripes...

Fashions come and go. Highland fashion moves more slowly than some, but to Panache's point, at least it's still alive and a new generation is adapting it to their sensibilities.

It all depends on what look you are going for and who you are trying to impress. You would be laughed at if you pulled out a catelogue from the 1930s to justify how a well dressed person should attire themselves today in saxon attire.

So here are my counterpoints, just because someone should make them.

1) The fly plaid might not be ideal, but it's the only plaid we have really. It's good to wear the plaid as it was always part of the regalia. It is perfectly appropriate for the groom to wear a plaid to step up his outfit a bit from his groomsmen and to make his wedding kit, fancier than what he'll be wearing at next year's Burns supper. If you wore a piper's plaid or drummer's plaid, there are plenty of people who would tell you it's wrong with that outfit.
2) White hose - Go with most looks. Aren't that different visually from what white spats once achieved and look fine with a white shirt and ghillie brogues. *Gasp* but you also hate ghillie brogues? Tough, they're in style nowadays and considered in most circles the proper footwear with the PC. Tartan flashes are also a new fashion that has caught on in popularity. My brother had his kilt and plaid made for his wedding, but when I suggested he outfit himself and the wedding party in custom tartan hose at $250 a pop, he laughed at me. That would have been $1000 plus measurement hassels vs. $0 cause everyone in the wedding party already owned the dreaded white hose.
3) His muppet sporran actually makes it obvious to his vegan and wildlife conservationist friends that a baby seal (or rabbit or badger or other cute furry mammal) didn't have to take a club in the head just to fancy up his outfit. This scores him points with the more sensitive ladies. Perhaps even the one he is marrying.
4) Belt with waistcoat - Not my choice, but why not? A little extra bling peeking out from the bottom of the waistcoat isn't going to hurt anyone.
5) Rouche tie - this is just an ascot or cravat tied in a four in hand. People have been wearing ascots and cravats forever with lots of different waistcoats and jackets.

If you want to look like a Highland chief or impress the Highland nobility, I wouldn't suggest this attire. If you want to save a few bucks and impress your wedding guests, your bride, and still show your Scottish pride, this is a perfectly logical approach.

My choice 1


My choice 2


My brother's wedding...


Though it isn't how I'd outfit my wedding party, I was very happy with my brother's wedding choices and everyone there thought we looked great.

Bottom line is while we all have our stylistic preferences, we should perhaps lighten up and stop taking ourselves and our bits of cloth so seriously. Yay for kilts.

*ducks under a chair and awaits the onslaught*

[MacThomas]

Interesting! Most scotsmen I know disadvise White Hose (too flashy for them but is practical for the hire industry....).

[Llama]

Fashion may be fickle, but how do we get the winds of fashion to blow in our direction again? By wearing things the way we think they should be worn and discussing it with others - and trying to bring them to our way of thought. We have to be careful of mockery or bullying, but I do believe it is a noble cause at heart.

I'm a recent survivor of the wedding-industrial complex and I can say with some authority that men are getting pushed around by vendors. But you know what? They're starting to push back. I've seen more men involved in their own weddings and influencing fashion decisions in the past 2 years than I've seen in 10 before it.

Men are starting to dress themselves again. They're starting to see that a tie is not a means of oppression and suit is not something that only monkeys wear. There's a movement toward things that are high-quality and handmade. People aren't satisfied with "Wedding Factories" and the 2 styles of tuxedos offered by David's Bridal.

And when they come looking for something else - we'll be here with open arms and a pint or dram.

At least that's how it was for me when I joined the rabble.

[KiltFitz]

I'm about to bang on again.....

I think that the amount of money that hire outlets charge for their product more than justifies a bit more choice and a greater level of expertise in shop staff than I have encountered. The hire outlets aren't really contributing much to 'fashion' either. Most of them just follow a formula of:

Order stock from same place as shop down the road.

Take photographs of about 3 or 4 outfits with variations of about 8 tartans and if lucky, a couple of different sock/jacket colours.

Show photographs to customer, dress him up and take the money.

To give an example, recently I wanted to get a nice argyll jacket for my Step-Dad to wear to rugby and highland games etc. He is 80 and doesn't get a lot of wear so we didn't think it worthwhile to spend a great deal so I did a bit of phoning around during ex-hire sale season (usually October over here).

At 3 of the hire outlets (which are also pretty busy retailers in Glasgow), they told me they don't hire argyll jackets, Prince Charlie only. One of the outlets has stores in several cities in very high-profile locations and they told me that they don't even hire their own stock, merely pass the order on to a sub-contracted hire company who deliver an outfit to the shop on the day required and I happen to know that this same company not only supplies several other outlets up and down the country but will deal with the customer direct at a considerably lower rate.

So where is the innovation, ingenuity and individuality that the rest of the fashion industry supposedly strives for? More to the point, where is the choice? Nowhere. It is this lack of imagination and a lack of respect for customers that opened the door to the Gold Brothers and others whereas if outlets had continued to operate as advertised, (family business, steeped in tradition, 100 years of expertise, blah etc) then the proprietors would be more likely to take note of craft, skill and even innovation in products. It is fine to put yourself up as both expert and purveyor but you should deliver both, not just the one that brings most profit. Otherwise customers just look for the cheapest option next time rather than being excited by the product and the experience. I think hire shops failed to realise that hiring a kilt for the first, maybe second time should be as much about delivering an experience to the customer as a convenience.

Of course you can buy all this at a price if you have enough time and money, but you won't be able to hire it and remember that the bride will expect it to match the curtains. The hire shops just never seem to show any passion for highlandwear in my experience. Most of them don't even have their staff wearing the product in front of customers, although they do seem to insist on the standard white shirt, black trousers/skirt etc. If I ate in an expensive restaurant and saw the Chef sitting at another table eating a McDonalds I would wonder what he didn't like about his own food. So, I wonder the same when there are no kilts being worn in a kilt shop.

[KiltFitz]

Fashion may be fickle, but how do we get the winds of fashion to blow in our direction again? By wearing things the way we think they should be worn and discussing it with others - and trying to bring them to our way of thought. We have to be careful of mockery or bullying, but I do believe it is a noble cause at heart.

I'm a recent survivor of the wedding-industrial complex and I can say with some authority that men are getting pushed around by vendors. But you know what? They're starting to push back. I've seen more men involved in their own weddings and influencing fashion decisions in the past 2 years than I've seen in 10 before it.

Men are starting to dress themselves again. They're starting to see that a tie is not a means of oppression and suit is not something that only monkeys wear. There's a movement toward things that are high-quality and handmade. People aren't satisfied with "Wedding Factories" and the 2 styles of tuxedos offered by David's Bridal.

And when they come looking for something else - we'll be here with open arms and a pint or dram.

At least that's how it was for me when I joined the rabble.

All out of Ayes but that's a big plus one for me!

[English Bloke]

Sorry, jusy Aye'd the wrong post. It was your observations on hire shops I was nodding at.

[Liam]

I'm pretty sure my wife will fight anyone who even suggests Mr. Connery is doing anything wrong...She still gets all gooey eyed remembering the time he bought a newspaper from her when she worked at the airport.

My favourite "Bond" of all time... If you look carefully at his jacket in this picture it appears that it could actually be done up. No doubt it is a bespoke and one of a kind, just as he is. He can do little wrong in the eyes of many who grew up watching 007.