Highland Wear from Pakistan

[Allum Aye]

Artificer:

Thank you for your two cents worth. You are absolutely correct with your comments. As I said in my initial thread, quality and service trump cost every time.

Thanks again!

Don
Allum Aye

[Allum Aye]

Nathan:

Thank you for your point of view. I could not agree with you more.

As outlined in my original thread, quality and service will always trump cost. I too believe in supporting businesses closer to home.

Thanks again!

Don
Allum Aye

[Steve Ashton]

I'm going to post this under this signature because it is an issue that the entire forum has discussed many times and will discuss many time more.

But, please understand that most of what I say comes from my experience owning and running a kilt shop.

Sailkot Pakistan has been a major manufacturing center since the mid 1800's. They are currently one of the worlds largest manufacturing centers for things such as sporting goods and surgical & dental instruments.

Pakistan is now one of the largest producers of woven goods in the world. If you own a pair of blue jeans the chance that the fabric was woven in Pakistan approaches 100%. Some of these weaving companies are huge with hundreds of employees and state of the art computer controlled looms. You can order 1 million yards and they won't even break a sweat.

The history of their production of Highland Wear goes back to the days of the British military's presence in that part of the world.

Currently Pakistan is producing more highland wear that anywhere else. I get between three and ten emails a week from established and new companies offering their goods. At my last, very random and unofficial count, I have been contacted by 123 companies, operating out of Pakistan, offering highland wear items.

Having been to that part of the world I can tell you from personal experience that some of these companies are located in one small room with under 5 workers, and some are very large with their own pipe band. (In fact the city of Sailkot holds an annual Pipe band competition each year, made up of company bands.)

In the 1990's some Scottish born brothers of Pakistani descent opened a sidewalk stall in Edinburgh. They are now the main and major presence on the Royal Mile.

The one thing that seems to be brought up more than any other about the highland wear manufacturers is their business practices. Well, it is a fact that the way business is conducted in Pakistan is different than the way it is done in the West.

For example - It is common for the websites of many Pakistani companies to look similar. This is because the manufacturers are not web designers. They contract out their websites to those who can produce an English language site and get it up and running quickly and efficiently. This had led to some cases where photos of Western looking models are found on the web and used.
It is common to see the same images on upwards of a dozen different sites.

While I'm on websites let me add -
It is also not uncommon for these websites to require payment via wire transfer instead of credit card.
Some of these websites do not offer the level of information security and customer service guarantees that we take for granted in the West.
Most of this is changing. The 21st century is upon us and people all over the world are much more computer savvy that they were even 5 years ago. I have recently seen some very good looking websites coming out of Pakistan.

Intellectual property issues are another topic that we discuss a lot here. Well, in Pakistan, it is common, and actually expected, that when you want to make something and sell it you start with an item from someone else. As an example only - lets say you have been making knives for a few generations and you get the idea to make a sgian dubh. You don't have a lot of people in your town who have ever seen a sgian dubh so you may buy one from another company or you may photograph one on a visit to the west. This becomes your pattern, your starting point. You may choose to make an exact copy or you may choose to change or improve it. Would this example be a case of intellectual property theft? Perhaps to us in the West, but it is the norm in other parts of the world.

Here is another example closer to home. When I started making kilts I had little idea of how a kilt was made. I had seen a Utilikilt and thought it was neat concept. I could have chosen to make an exact copy of a Utilikilt. I knew they would sell, all I would need to do is be able to sell them cheaper than the Utilikilt company and I could make some money. I chose to go in a different direction but there was nothing stopping me from making that exact copy. Not even Steven Villegas's patent was applicable to me here in Canada. I would not be breaking any laws.
This is in fact how almost 20 companies in N. America started. Ask yourself how many narrow apron/reverse kingussie pleated, kilt makers you can think of right here in the West.


So what is driving all of this production? Well, frankly it is money. Products, of any kind, can be produced in Pakistan far cheaper than here in the west. Worker's wages is just one factor. Manufacturing regulations concerning environmental impact of waste and quality control are others. Taxes and business operating expenses like utilities are also a big factor.
For many years Pakistan was like "the wild, wild west" when it came to manufacturing. There was little in the way of regulation and control so if you could get a couple of people together you could sell anything you could make.

This is changing too. Recent events such as industrial accidents have made the international news and brought some issues to the forefront.



Now let's get back to the OP's original question. How about the quality and service of one particular company in Pakistan. I'm afraid that that question is currently not able to be answered. There are so many companies operating today that no one can know about them all. Some have really slick and modern looking websites but you simply cannot tell from a website what the company behind the site is like. Imperial Highland Supplies is one I know almost nothing about except from the emails I have gotten. I can tell you from looking at their website that the photos are not of the actual products they sell. They are using photos of products from Lochcarron, Gaelic Themes, Glengarryhats and at least three other Western manufacturers.
I can tell you that the photos of the kilts on the site are the exact same photos of about five other sites.
You really have no idea from the site and no guarantee from the company that the product you get it the one you thought you had ordered.

I can also tell from reading the text on the website that it was not written by a person whose native tongue is English. They did not proof read the words on the site either.

All of this and more would lead me to give this company a pass. It would not matter how low their prices are. There are just too many alarm bells to make me comfortable sending them my hard earned money.

And this is the point this long post is trying to get across. There are some really good companies in Pakistan. And there are some questionable ones. Do your research and take your time. It is your money and you should at least feel when your product arrives that you got good value for your money.

We see this all the time here on X Marks. A new member posts that he has found a really low price on a product. They ask for our advice. But it is plain that very little other than a quick Google search is all that was done for research. If all you are basing your purchasing decision on is what you see on a website and the listed price you may end up with a good experience and you may also end up back here posting how disappointed you are with your purchase.

Again - It is your money. You can spend it anyway you want. But the one, single, most powerful tool is the research you do before you send off your credit card number.

And that is where X Marks comes in. This site is full of experience. Read some of the stories and learn what to look for. What should set alarm bells ringing and what should make you feel all warm and fuzzy.

The old phrase "Buy in haste - Repent in leisure" is actually true.

[Allum Aye]

Steve:

Thank you very much for your comprehensive response to my inquiry. I realize that the term "caveat emptor" rings particularly true when carrying on business in far-off lands and some closer to home.

Thanks again!

Don
Allum Aye

[O'Callaghan]

I've only really had any problem with one vendor, and they were in the US, but the're no longer in business, unsurprisingly. Were their products Pakistani? Probably, but it's not really relevant.

Most of the cheap stuff is made in Sialkot, Pakistan, as the man says. I've had no problems with the one kilt that I ordered direct from Pakistan, but the shipping will cost you $30 for one kilt if you go that route. Many vendors in the West import from there in large quantities, and once you factor in shipping and customer service it's probably a better plan. Then it's all down to choosing the importer.

As for bagpipes, I'm not a piper myself, but the situation is this. Pakistani pipes use rosewood for the chanters. That is in fact the traditional material, but it's not very durable. Makers in Scotland switched to African hardwood long ago. The problem with that, is that the trees they use are endangered species! So Pakistani pipes are cheap, but figure in frequent replacement of the chanters. OTOH, be careful if you buy pipes with African hardwood chanters, lest you contribute to an environmental disaster!

[Allum Aye]

O'Callaghan:

Thank you for your response to my inquiry. Based on everything I have heard to date, I will purchase items closer to home. I may pay more, but save myself a load of aggravation in the long run.

Thank you for taking the time to share your views.

Sincerely,

Don
Allum Aye

[Couper]

Steve:

Thank you very much for your comprehensive response to my inquiry. I realize that the term "caveat emptor" rings particularly true when carrying on business in far-off lands and some closer to home.

Thanks again!

Don
Allum Aye

Yes, Steve provided what could be an exemplar of a comprehensive response. He knows about which he speaks - with much experience in the avenues of kilt making and of being a businessman who markets both in person and on the Web.

I can provide a multi-part response, with one part addressing the quality of merchandise I have received from a UK vendor (Tartanista) whom I found via eBay, and the other commenting on "business" concerns that Steve addressed. (I make a living at Internet Marketing.)

Part I)
The latest of two kilts I ordered was an 8-yarder in the BlackWatch tartan. It cost all of $79 - including overnight delivery form the UK. It is high quality Scottish-woven wool? Certainly not? Does it fit me well? Yes, it does. Does it look good? Yes it does and it has received compliments when I have worn it (four times thus far in the last two months)?

Am I a cheapskate? Not really - but I thought I would "try" a cheap kilt about a year ago - a 5-yarder - from Tartanista. At that point I had already bought a USA Kilts Casual (I visited Rocky's store to make that purchase) and I also had a SportKilt.

So why am I not a cheapskate? I have since purchased another Casual during a visit to Rocky's store AND I currently have a 5-Yard wool kilt "in the works" (and hope to have it right around the Christmas holidays - but have not yet heard anything about a target delivery date - in fact have received no correspondence since the day I was measured and paid for it in mid November).

Will I still buy another Pakistani-made kilt when I get the "itch." Yes. Why? For the cost of one high-end bespoke kilt by a "name" kiltmaker I can own 10 Pakistani kilts. Granted, they may not be of the highest quality - but they are good quality (at least in my size range) and I do receive compliments (likely from the vast majority of people who are not members of the Kilt Police). Will they last as long as a high quality kilt? Certainly not, but the ten of them, combined, will last a lot longer than I'll be alive.

The last round of kilt compliments was last Thursday - but was for a Celtic Nations Casual kilt by USA Kilts (only 110+ bucks). I posted a picture the other day (http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/f...-season-82022/) - we were at the annual Washington Monument Lighting Celebration in Baltimore, MD - at an event at the Engineers Club of Baltimore (located right next to the Monument). This was not a black tie event - but was also not a "casual" shindig, either.

So...for Part II
I'll need to create another post to comment on the "business" aspects that Steve mentioned (I, too, have heard from the Pakistani suppliers). I am not a kiltmaker but am starting a kilt-related web marketing project. If there is any interest at all - I can respond. Some of my ideas in "kilt" marketing have come from posts right here on X-Marks. Lemme know.

[Riverkilt]

Lovin' this discussion. My choice has been to avoid the Pakistani goods - with one exception. The battle jackets and Ike jackets from What Price Glory. They go well with kilts and are well made...course they're not inexpensive either.

[Pleater]

I remember with some amusement the photograph of a jacket offered by a Pakistani firm which was normal 'Saxon' length, but had flaps added to the bottom edge. I am sure it was done from simply not knowing what was wanted, but it does show what can happen.

I happened to develop a reverse Kingussie style kilt for myself - I wanted to ride my bicycle more comfortably, so when I lost some weight I remade my kilts with a centre back box pleat and mirror imaged small pleats and then I lost more weight and narrowed the aprons rather than redo the pleats again. I even did one in black cotton, having never seen a Utilikilt up close enough to pinch the design. I suspect that most RevK black cotton kilts are wannabe Utilikilts, though.

Anne the Pleater :ootd:

[Allum Aye]

Couper:

Thank you for your comments regarding my concern about Pakistani highland wear suppliers. I certainly appreciate the time and effort contributed by many forum members.

All the best!

Don
Allum Aye
Manitoba, Canada