Highland Wear from Pakistan

[rsvpiper]

OK I'll throw my hat into the ring on this one! myself and two other piper friends wanted the Army Officers blue patrol jacket, They have a similar jacket but called the police tunic. So after many email about what was required including various pictures a price was agreed 1 was ordered(we split the cost between us) if that came and was ok then others would follow, The first thing that struck me was the amount of email traffic prior to the order 1/2 every few days! the bells should have started to ring then!! once the order was placed a date was given for the jacket to be sent 14 days hence the email traffic stopped dead, at 28 days and no replys from any of my emails i started a claim via paypal.

Within a few days the jacket arrived to say it was crap is understating the point, I had supplied them with the correct measurements I'm a 44 chest the jacket is at least a 46 the material on the chest area has rippled plus many other issues, So i got back in touch with them i explained about the over size the reply came "Oh yes we had your measurement but always give customers breathing room!! if you wanted it to your supplied measurements YOU should have said!" so i requested a refund as this jacket is of no use to me, the chap then offered to refund £10 so i could get it sorted here in the UK, (which was about as much use as a chocolate fire guard!) As they refused a refund i carried on with the claim via Paypal which to add insult to injury they will not pay out on as this is a tailor made item.

So my friend avoid them like the plague, cheap as cheap maybe but there is no quality or fair trade with these people. Like most of these traders they just want your money. You can get some top kit off ebay's private sellers or best of all from this forums sponsors

Andy

[English Bloke]

Couldn't agree more Andy

Not sure about the company under discussion, never dealt with them, but I have had dealings with another similar outfit called Geoffrey [Made for Scottish] of Sialkot. They trade on ebay and should not to be confused with the very excellent Geoffrey [Tailor] of Edinburgh, who do not.

These "Made for Scottish" purveyors of poor quality products from the Punjab, offered a made to measure, Argyle style jacket at a price which at the time, I could afford. With postage on top and hindsight applied, it wasn't really that much cheaper than a British Made, off the peg equivalent but I was in a hurry to have one for an occasion and lacked the extra readies needed for the better alternative at the time and I was also less experienced in matters Kilt then too. I was reassured in my nativity [edit: Nativity??? how did than get in there??... I meant naivety of course... darn autoword...] by the sales pitch which assured "Top Quality" and that they were "established in 1912" and (apparently) used to supply Highland-wear to the British Army in India (We've not had one of those since 1948 so I should have assumed standards may have slipped... but I didn't. Blinded by trust, good faith and mention of a tenuous military connection).

On arrival it was blitherin' awful, It too was about 2" too big in the chest, additional breathing room is standard it would seem. The material was thin and I doubt it was the 100% wool it claimed to be. The lining was badly tailored from a nasty, tissue thin nylon and the badly moulded shiny buttons were randomly sewn onto plain sleeves, plain pocket flaps and the unattached, plaited epaulettes. It looked to all intents and purposes like a shortened standard jacket in the cut and hang and I looked like I was wearing my bigger brothers coat.

It was partially salvaged by the removal of said shiny buttons but was still, in my wife's opinion, decidedly dreadful on me. After one or two outings the whole shebang was replaced by a far better quality 2nd hand, but hardly worn, tweed jacket and waistcoat for loosely the same price I paid for Mr Geoffrey's efforts.

Lesson learned. Never again!

Don't walk away from these companies... RUN like the wind!!

Regards John

[ASinclair]

Lovin' this discussion....

Me too. This is good stuff to know.

[Allum Aye]

Andy:

Thank you for your comments. Message received!

Don
Allum Aye

[Allum Aye]

Hello John:

Thank you for your comments regarding highland wear made in Pakistan. While I am sure that all companies are not the same, I don`t want to take the time to run them through the ``strainer``. Your message was received loud and clear!

Thanks again.

Don
Allum Aye

[Steve Ashton]

I would like to make sure that everyone fully understands that not all who produce highland wear in Pakistan are bad. Some are quite good.

Where most people run into problems is that for most of the companies kilts and other highland wear are only side businesses. Their main business may be hand embroidered badges or musical instruments. (A little more on that later)

What I found in my research is that one or two companies started making kilts. They had a local source for inexpensive acrylic fabrics woven in plaids. (I did not say Tartan as the fabrics are not always to the correct thread count. They were not intending to produce Tartan, just random plaids in the beginning and some designs were woven from cell phone photos.) They also did not know that a kilt should have some internal construction. They were actually using SportKilts and some early USA Kilts casual models as their inspiration.

These products were very simple and easy to make. One person could make two or three an hour.

These early companies were not selling to the public. They did not have their own websites. They sold to other companies in bulk who then re-sold them on the Royal Mile and other places.
Their main customer was not an X Marks member.

Thousands of tourists go to Scotland each year. They want to bring home a souvenir and don't want to spend an arm and a leg. The £30.00 kilts were, and still are, snapped up by tourists at an amazing rate. These kilts are not made to the pattern and style we know. They are made for sale to tourists who may only wear it once or twice.

They were made because there was a demand.

In a very short span the market blossomed. X Marks is one of the reasons and so is the popularity of the Utilikilt. Ten years ago there were only four or five companies making kilts. Today there are hundreds.

Why? Well quite simply because people are buying them. These products are now sold by the hundreds over the web and from some major retail shop all over the world. They are bought at Highland Games and Renaissance festivals and Si-Fi conventions.
Go to Edinburgh. Almost the entire Royal Mile is owned by these companies. Tourists are driving the market. Pakistan is filling the demand.

If anyone wants a quick and easy business all they would need is the following -

A fairly good but inexpensive desk or laptop computer with monitor and printer. - This is the machine you run your business on. Never, ever, surf porn on this machine unless you want a virus to put you out of business real quick. - A machine to run this type of business can be had at Future shop for less than $1000.00.
A catchy company name. - Something like "The real Scottish Kilt Company" would work real well.
A Federal Tax Number - This is for income tax, See your country's website. Usually around $35.00-$100.00.
A Municipal Business License - Usually $50.00 to $100.00 per year.
A Domain name - You can get one through companies like GoDaddy for about $45.00.
A Web hosing contract - Companies like Monsterhosing will give you hosting for about $26.00 a year.
A PayPal account - Free.
An EBay store account - A minimal charge depending on your country.
A place to store inventory - You can easily run this out of your garage or basement.
A business account at your local post office - Usually free.
A ton of bubble padded shipping envelopes tape, labels etc.

Then do a little research on the web and pick a Pakistani company. Order one of their vendor packages. Most offer these for about $1000.00 to $1500.00 and includes about 200 kilts in all sizes and colors, belts, sporrans and kilt pins. These also will sometimes come with a ready to host website. All you need to do is send the website to your hosting company.
These websites come with all the pictures and text and formatting you need. I've even seen them with the Royal Warrant seal right at the top.
For little more that $2000.00 you can be ready to start shipping out your product all over the world.

It really is about that simple. You don't need to make anything and don't have to have a brick and mortar shop.

99% of your customers will be someone who only wants a thing that looks like a kilt for a Halloween party or to go to their local Games one time. Quite often these kilts are hung on the wall and never worn so you have little the way of customer service to worry about.

And that brings us to what we have today. Hundreds of companies selling virtually the exact same product made en-mass by workers whose average annual income is $450.00. Companies who can buy locally woven fabrics for pennies per yard. Who have access to a guy down the street casting buckles and another around the corner making sporrans.

They are doing it simply because there is a demand. Thousands of customers riding the wave of the popularity of kilts all over the world, looking for the lowest price.

I see this in my shop on an almost daily basis. Customers who walk in and honestly expect to find a kilt for the price of a pair of jeans.

It is no wonder that some (not all, but some) of these companies are selling junk. They can get away with it as long as the demand holds out.

There is so little good information out there. Places like X Marks really are special because most of our members actually do know what a kilt should look and feel like.

To give you an example of the lack of information, even among the companies making these products, take a look at this youtube video.

This is the annual pipe band competition in Sailkot Pakistan. Watch as the first place award is given out.




And this one is better.




Notice how many kilt are worn backwards, down below the knee and with a mish-mash of uniform items.

Then, please note that the bagpipes do not sound like The Royal Scots Dragoon Guards. They are tuned to the 12 note Eastern Scale, not to the Western 8 note scale.

They simply do not know. They honestly think that this is how it is done. This is a world totally isolated from the product they produce.

[Allum Aye]

Hello Everyone:

I certainly appreciate everyone`s comments regarding Scottish regalia produced in Pakistan.

I hope that everyone understands that I was simply looking for information on what I consider less expensive (and yes sometimes cheap items) that appear, from company websites, to be comparable to products manufactured in the British Isles and North America.

As Mr. Ashton has clearly illustrated, not all Pakistani companies are the same and that the quality of their products and services may vary as well.

While I appreciate the contributions made to this discussion by so many members, it was never my intent to make this forum an indictment against the Pakistani highland apparel industry. Given our easy access to information these days, I can muster enough ammunition to be critical of businesses in my own country.

Thanks again for participating in this discussion.

Sincerely,

Don
Allum Aye
Manitoba, Canada