Waist coat? Or belt?

[frank_a]

How does one determine whether to wear a waistcoat and no belt with a PC, or a belt and no waistcoat? Thanks! Frank

[Jock Scot]

I think its down to personal choice more than anything else. Some may say that a properly fitted waistcoat(no belt) probably sets off the whole look rather better though.

[Chas]

I don't think that there is a hard and fast rule, Frank, but certain things should be taken into consideration.

In no particular order -

Temperature of the event - waistcoats are warmer.

Waistcoat is a little bit more formal - the event might dictate.

Jacket on or jacket off - back to formality

Waist size of the wearer - a waistcoat can hide a lifetime of big lunches.

Finally - is a belt required to hold the kilt up, or will braces do? - Braces will be hidden by a waistcoat.

[McMurdo]

I would have to agree with Jock on this one. When wearing a PC I always wear the waistcoat as the coatee seems unfinished somehow without the waistcoat. Personally I think it looks much better with the waistcoat.

[The Wizard of BC]

I personally never wear a dirk belt with a Prince Charlie Coatee.
I always wear a 3 button waistcoat, tux shirt w/ studs and black bow tie with the PC.

There is no requirement to wear a Dirk Belt with a kilt in the first place. It is not worn to hold the kilt up, its original purpose was to support the dirk.

I suspect that calling the Dirk Belt a Kilt Belt is another of those marketing things. It came with the package deal.
We still see these horrible package deals sold all over the web. "Buy a kilt, PC, Belt w/ buckle, fuzzy fur sporran, white hose and ghillie brouges and your clan crest on everything for one low price".

They began to show up just as the wave of interest in the kilt started and kilts began to be available over the web. We can actually point to where and when this whole idea of of the "full kilt outfit" started. It may have done a greater disservice to the kilt wearing world than any other single thing.

If you look back in the history of X Marks we have been trying to dispel all the 'wrongness' perpetuated by these 'outfits' for a long time now. This is where we get the white hose, the matchy-matchy idea, the in-expensive kilt, and the entire concept of what is "proper" like it is some sort of uniform comes from.

[Father Bill]

I'm out of "Ayes" but much agreed, Steve.

[ASinclair]

What Steve said!

[kiltedjoss]

Personal choice. For me, each event I choose. Do I want to show off that solid silver buckle? No vest. Do I want to take off my jacket? Vest.

[The Wizard of BC]

Again a note from an old guy. One who learned to dress when people would still be able to give you the why and the reason behind what they said.

If you look at a vest they will usually have a thin satin back with the cinching strap across the back. The back of this type of vest was never supposed to be seen.
This is why I was taught that you never take your jacket off.

It is also still seen where the vest worn under the Prince Charlie Coatee did not have a back at all. It slipped over your head and had just the cinch strap going around the back.
I would never take off my jacket wearing one of these.

The Prince Charlie Coatee is the kilt equivalent of a tuxedo. It is only worn for formal occasions. You may pull the ends of your bow tie and let them hang but would never take your tux jacket off in a formal setting.

To get an idea of this type of thinking watch some old movies featuring 'The Rat Pack". This was a group of guys who did more to make the tuxedo famous than any other. Frank Sinatra, "The Chairman of the board" never took his tux jacket off except when in his private rooms. And would even put it back on before answering the door.
Dean Martin "Deano" was famous for untieing his bow tie and letting the ends hang. That was as casual or 'dressed down' as he would get.
These were guys who were masters at wearing the tuxedo. It was so natural to them that it was like they were born in them.

I try to teach this stuff to the young guys coming to my shop to rent their prom outfits. More times than I can remember these young kids have come back and thanked me for the advice from the days before blue jeans. Their dates notice this stuff and each kid has been happily surprised with the reaction he has received for dressing with just a bit more class than the others.

[English Bloke]

Removing one's jacket? At a formal dinner??

Good Lord!! Perish the thought.