Over doing it

[StevieR]

I have absolutely no wish to stereotype but we British are renowned for being reserved in all things. Throughout this thread I have noticed that largely our friends from across the pond have been in favour of ostentatiousness (is that a word?) whereas largely GB folk have urged restraint and caution.

What the heck, it's your party in your country go for it. No doubt you will glow like a peacock, just don't do it over here as it may not be accepted in quite the way you would like.

As Jock says above "each to their own". Above all the most important thing is to enjoy it and don't forget the pictures!!!

Well said mate, I was always taught that "understated elegance" was the objective, but I defy anyone not to be thinking "well. . . maybe" when confronted with a picture of the late, great John D Burgess in all his pomp

[Grizzly]

Absolutely mate. John D Burgess never knowingly undersold -

[Nathan]

, how about " theatrically loud"? My childhood training in Highland attire and still holds true for me today, was most certainly to be smartly dressed at all times,(we agree there!) not only that, at all times, in all occassions was brashness and loud attire to be avoided at all costs<snip>

Cheeky, Jock. I don't think it's "theatrically loud" that I'm going for nor brash, garish, clownish or to use a North American idiom, "pimptastic". To quote my earlier posts...

Note that I didn't say the most overdressed or ornate man in the room

and

to strike the balance of looking like you did it a little better than the other cookie cutter gents without looking like you just tried too hard. The idea is to look one's best AND to make it look effortless.

and

I'm trying to balance my desire to stand out a little among a herd of Prince Charlies without standing out as an overdressed lemon.

I just said I want to be noticeably well-dressed. That doesn't mean over the top. One can be noticeably poorly dressed by going over the top with bells and whistles when the situation doesn't call for it. That's why there's an art to it.

What the heck, it's your party in your country go for it. No doubt you will glow like a peacock, just don't do it over here as it may not be accepted in quite the way you would like...As Jock says above "each to their own". Above all the most important thing is to enjoy it and don't forget the pictures!!!

Simon, I'll certainly do my best to enjoy the evening and since I'm going solo and don't know anyone there, I may or may not come out of it with good photos, but I'll do my best. I don't exactly want to "glow like a peacock" but when I look at the choices of HRH the Duke of Rothsay, MacLeod of MacLeod, even my own Clan chief, what i notice is that they aren't dressed completely typically, but they are dressed elegantly and noticably so. Touches like the lapels and straight cut bottom on the Duke of Rothsay's waistcoat set him apart.

Do I think one can overdo it? Sure I do! That's what I started the thread to discuss, but if you're going for a less formal look, how do you still make it the best damn "not so formal" black tie look there? Certainly, impeccable quality and fit is one way. Perhaps having a nice bespoke sporran or unique buttons on your jacket would be another. For me, it might be wearing the diced hose when everyone else is in plain. What I don't think I'd do at this particular dinner is show up with a velvet doublet complete with jabot, cuffs, castellated tartan hose, bar and buckle brogues, and for good measure a dirk and plaid. That would look ridiculous in this context.

Perhaps one or two snazzy elements is all you need to raise the bar... A pocket watch and pocket square might do the trick...

I have absolutely no wish to stereotype but we British are renowned for being reserved in all things. Throughout this thread I have noticed that largely our friends from across the pond have been in favour of ostentatiousness (is that a word?) whereas largely GB folk have urged restraint and caution.

With the greatest respect to yourself and your fellow Britons, I've always thought of the "reserved" stereotype as applying to the English rather more than to the Gaels. I mean, we're talking about the people who invented tartan and engaged in Clan warfare over the slightest offence. A quick look at vintage portraits demonstrates that subtlety wasn't what the Highlander of days gone by was going for. Nevertheless, generations of Union and having the Noble children educated in the best schools in the South has certainly meant that a degree of inevitable assimilation has occurred and has had a transformative impact on the culture and mores of the Highland Scots. I respect that. It is what it is. We New Scotland Gaels have assimilated toward the customs of our Anglophone Canadian neighbours who, in turn, have been influenced in no small part by our Southern neighbours. Canadians too, however, are known for being somewhat reserved.

I will say, however, that I find it no strange coincidence that the area of Scotland that is the most Gaelic, the Western Highlands and Islands, has the reputation for being more daring/individualistic in their fashion choices.

That's not to say that a subtle, reserved approach is wrong, mind you. In fact, if you're going to take a chance where fashion is concerned, you had better do so with a deft hand, or you'll look like a buffoon who just bought one of everything that was for sale and put it on. I could show you some mighty elaborate and ostentatious outfits from local Ontario Highland games that would not approach being what I would call "well-dressed".

See, "theatrically loud" makes me think of "gaudiness" and "gaudiness" is "showiness in a tasteless and vulgar way". NO THANKS! I'm going for most stylish or dapper. That's a more subtle trick. Not sure if I always hit the bull's eye, but that's my goal. As always, the input of the Rabble help refine my instincts in this regard.

[MacRobert's Reply]

What a well-crafted reply Nathan!

[saxandpipes]

Provided you are dressed "appropriately", I believe the thing that will set you apart in any occasion is, as you mention yourself, decent quality clothing/accessories- that fit well! (a beautiful sporran can help, as well as a bespoke jacket/waistcoat...but a tailored one will do perfectly well)

And don't underestimate the power of a good shoe-shine!

Cheers,

Michael

[saxandpipes]

Also, check out photos of Gordon Walker... He is an excellent example of how to be dressed, fitting in perfectly, whilst still (seemingly effortlessly) being in another league altogether!

Cheers!

[Jock Scot]

Absolutely mate. John D Burgess never knowingly undersold -

I know many will think that I am talking heresy here, but you make my point perfectly Simon. Pipers are showmen, performers, love the limelight, the world is their stage, they love the attention ----its what makes them tick after all and whilst in CIVILIAN dress they can and do, on occasion, push the boundaries of Highland attire way beyond what many of us would want to do. No one would argue, least of all me, that they are not entitled to dress how they please, no one could criticise them for not being well turned out, but make no mistake the theatrical influence is plain to see , if you want to see it and their attire can sometimes be way beyond the norm and well into the realms of theatrically loud. It would be unwise to regard these brilliant musicians' attire as any sort of example to follow if you want to be within the realms of traditionally and tastefully attired and you chaps need to be aware of this when deciding your future purchases and how others may view your attire. Just saying.

[Nathan]

I know many will think that I am talking heresy here, but you make my point perfectly Simon. Pipers are showmen, performers, love the limelight, the world is their stage, they love the attention ----its what makes them tick after all and whilst in CIVILIAN dress they can and do, on occasion, push the boundaries of Highland attire way beyond what many of us would want to do. No one would argue, least of all me, that they are not entitled to dress how they please, no one could criticise them for not being well turned out, but make no mistake the theatrical influence is plain to see , if you want to see it and their attire can sometimes be way beyond the norm and well into the realms of theatrically loud. It would be unwise to regard these brilliant musicians' attire as any sort of example to follow if you want to be within the realms of traditionally and tastefully attired and you chaps need to be aware of this when deciding your future purchases and how others may view your attire. Just saying.

When I read this and your previous statements about Clan Chiefs and the Duke of Rothsay and deep pockets, the subtext comes across like, "These people can get away with it because they're big shots. If you're not important, it's tacky to try to dress like you're important."

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, so correct me if that's way off base.

[Jock Scot]

When I read this and your previous statements about Clan Chiefs and the Duke of Rothsay and deep pockets, the subtext comes across like, "These people can get away with it because they're big shots. If you're not important, it's tacky to try to dress like you're important."

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, so correct me if that's way off base.

You are not only putting words into my mouth, you are, I am sorry to say, also seemingly determined to draw the wrong conclusions from what I actually said.

[rondo]

Nathan,
I try very, very hard to refrain from commenting in this particular forum as I feel like an alien here, but, like you, I find it difficult to understand this "two different sets of rules" thing that seems to be prevalent. I am a flamboyant personality myself and while not a musician, or actor [anymore] the [perceived] pretentiousness of some of my sartorial decisions puts off some folks. Screw them, they are my clothes, I'll wear them as I see fit and appropriate [this is not a slam against anyone or anyone's opinion]. I have found that if I wear my clothing with confidence, in a smart manner, and brush off the odd look or comment I am fine. This holds true whether I am wearing black leather motorcycle gear, kilts, or a dashiki. Confidence is the key.
I love your balmoral coatee, it looks stunning. Wear it with pride and confidence to your event. I think it is entirely approriate given the photos you've shown of past events. When I was considering the balmoral doublet as an addition to my highland attire it would have been used in place of a PC. Alas, being a somewhat rotund man, it wasn't flattering on me and I went with an open coat alternative. Don't overthink it.
As for the Pipe Major, I think he exudes confidence. He always presented himself sharply and squared away[in every photo I've seen]. Best regards.
Rondo
P.S. My flame suit is on.