Dress codes and changing trends

[JohntheBiker]

I am pretty sure I know the picture that you refer to. I will see if I can find it. We need to be careful here. The invitation was for "morning dress OR(my italics) lounge suits", so the gentleman wearing the tweed argyll was perfectly attired in lounge suit equivalent. Pictures should carry health warnings as it is so easy to draw the wrong conclusions from them, without details of context.

Found it!Is this the one JB?

Thank you Jock for the clarification. The devil is in the details.

[MacRobert's Reply]

I have just plain run out of closet space. No two ways about it, I am now trying desperately to learn how to look good as I can't help but look, with fewer items.

A sound approach okiwen. Go for quality rather than quantity. Quality may or may not correlate with price but invariably relates to fit, fabric and tailoring. It is also IMHO worth investing in timeless classics rather than fashion fads which are fleeting and have designed-in (and often built-in) obsolescence.

[creagdhubh]

A sound approach okiwen. Go for quality rather than quantity. Quality may or may not correlate with price but invariably relates to fit, fabric and tailoring. It is also IMHO worth investing in timeless classics rather than fashion fads which are fleeting and have designed-in (and often built-in) obsolescence.

Well said indeed, MacRobert. I couldn't agree more, mate.

Cheers,

[TheOfficialBren]

Mac Robert brings up a very valid point regarding obsolescence.

Classics never fail, I have found--even outside of Highland wear.

[Hopper250]

In my everyday, I work in an office. I'm on the upper end of dress that we see for men and I wear a short or long sleave button down with jeans (khakis or slacks occationally) there a couple of guys who some times dress nicer than me but it is a rare occurance for them. This is seen as business casual. Which would fall into the Day Wear catagory were I to wear a kilt rather than pants.

I think Nathan's list is very solid and would like to see a few more pics. Like the 1 Kilt threads but for each catagory. So we could see a compiled set of White Tie, Black Tie, etc...

[Calgacus]

...I think Nathan's list is very solid and would like to see a few more pics. Like the 1 Kilt threads but for each catagory. So we could see a compiled set of White Tie, Black Tie, etc...

That is indeed a very good idea, but before we can do this I think we need to nail down the black barathea silver buttoned Argyll problem, which seems to me to be the spanner in the works.

It seems to me that there are two schools of thought. One is the more traditional conservative approach. The Jacobite, the Tory of the Highland dress world, if you will. This approach is that the BBSBA is the equivalent of morning dress, suitable only for daytime weddings and the odd horse race. In fact as the tweed Argyll is suitable for weddings, it's really completely redundant. Not only that, it's positively wrong to wear it in the evening.

The second approach is the more modern approach, the Government Forces, the Whig of the piece. This approach is that the BBSBA is very versatile. It is suitable for daytime weddings, nights out, office parties, lesser black tie affairs, as an all-encompassing travel-jacket suitable for all occasions when abroad.

So where do we stand? Are we marching on Derby or retreating to Culloden? Personally, I'm torn. I am by nature a traditionalist, bound strongly by my culture and my heritage. On the other hand, I can't quite see myself turning up at the office dinner dance (dress code lounge suit) in my Lovat green Argyll. A charcoal Argyll at a pinch maybe, but I'd feel more comfortable in a BBSBA and waistcoat.

Which is 'right'? Maybe the nice girl in the kilt hire shop implanted a chip in my brain.

[Nathan]

So if all of my sources in post 15 didn't convince you, maybe OCRichard can show you photos from the 19th Century when jackets very much like the modern Black Argyll were worn with full evening attire, complete with cross belt, dirk, plaid etc...

He can also produce catalogues where it's sold as evening wear.

One of the most traditional gents on here, Jock Scot, recommends a BBSBA for lesser black tie affairs.

As an aside, with perhaps the exception of the Prince Charlie coatee, I don't think Highland jackets were designed solely with their Saxon equivalents in mind. Certainly, sharing an Island with England and Wales, these parallels were drawn but we should also remember to view Highland attire in it's own context and light not simply as compared to what the trousered crowd is wearing.

No spanner in the works from my perspective.

[Calgacus]

Ok, good argument. That would suggest that my gut feeling about what to wear to the office dinner dance is right and I've not been making a fool of myself all these years. Not that I ever really had any sort of crisis of confidence, it's more an observation that it must be terribly confusing to those new to the kilt.

I agree also that Highland jackets are not in thrall to Saxon conventions, I was just trying to pin down the 'rules' however flexible with regard to the BBSBA

A well illustrated sticky is, I think, a good idea. Maybe when the days are longer and there's natural light for some photos...

[Jock Scot]

I think we can all agree that modern dress is far more casual than it was even 40 years ago and who knows where general dress standards will go in the future? Kilt dress codes generally have moved at a much slower pace, although, mainly through ignorance, combined with a worldwide( Scotland to) slide towards casual dress, does cause genuine misunderstandings with what is required for traditional kilt attire.

No one, not one of us here, are immune from these cultural, traditional, national, international, climate, modern dress conventions, fashion cross currents and this thread alone never mind the umpteen thousand other threads here that have been posted about all this confirm it.

So I(and others) have taken the view that for those that want to, can be armed with the more traditional point of view on kilt attire so that when and if, the occasion should arise, out of the blue perhaps, then those that wish to can at least be armed with the right information to venture forth with their attire that will do them and the kilt justice whilst not looking like a clown. I am not aware of anyone on this website has ever said you cant wear this or that kilt attire however you want. What has been said regularly, is; "if you want to wear the kilt properly in the traditional manner for such and such an event then these are your best options to dress to best effect", and if that is not your choice then so be it. What is more than a little galling is when the "I will wear what I damn well like" comments get trotted out when advice has been asked for!

I think it does help if we all remember AND KEEP REMEMBERING that kilt attire came from a completely different tradition than what most of you are familier with. There is no exact comparison between kilt attire and saxon attire, matching colours is not a pre-requisit for kilt attire, there are no---and never has been----exact dress pigeon holes for kilt attire and it is here that we seem to get the most confusion with those who are not familier with kilt attire and added to this confusion, is that people fail to understand similar events(black tie for example) do not necessarilly require the same standard of dress. When personal flair(which kilt attire does encourage to some extent, even in Scotland) is added to the equation then it is so easy for the unaware to go off the rails.

This is such a useful thread. Well done.

[Calgacus]

Well said, Jock. Well said.

I have found a link which I think summarises the whole thing nicely

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6kgS_AwuH0

Welcome aboard...