Charles Edward Stuart's Targe

[TheOfficialBren]

Whatever the provenance, still a magnificent looking targe and can hang in my loungeroom anytime. Thanks for putting up the photo Scott.

...and I will be happy to loan it tonyou any time, Mike. Lol.

Thanks, Atrificer. Great theead. Thanks, Kyle. I dig the hostory lesson here.

Ot would be a shame if some of his other targes ended up on the black market but, unfortunately, these things happen more often than most people realise. Private collectors actully seem to do more harm than good on many occasions. I had an archaeology professor a whole back that kind of instilled that opinion, though.

[jhockin]

From the web page on the National Museums of Scotland:
"Targe, owned by Prince Charles Edward Stewart

A targe is a circular Highland battle shield made of wood and covered with leather. This example was presented to Prince Charles Edward Stewart in 1740 by James, 3rd Duke of Perth.

The targe is made in the traditional highland way, with overlapping wooden boards covered in pigskin. It is, however, much more elaborately decorated than most Highland targes and its silver mounts were probably added in London in 1740.

The targe was rescued from Culloden battlefield in 1746 by Jacobite colonel Ewan MacPherson of Cluny and remained in his family until the 20th century."

[artificer]

From the web page on the National Museums of Scotland:
"Targe, owned by Prince Charles Edward Stewart

A targe is a circular Highland battle shield made of wood and covered with leather. This example was presented to Prince Charles Edward Stewart in 1740 by James, 3rd Duke of Perth.

The targe is made in the traditional highland way, with overlapping wooden boards covered in pigskin. It is, however, much more elaborately decorated than most Highland targes and its silver mounts were probably added in London in 1740.

The targe was rescued from Culloden battlefield in 1746 by Jacobite colonel Ewan MacPherson of Cluny and remained in his family until the 20th century."

Which would follow along similar lines to the information laid out in "The Highlanders of Scotland", although the "Highlanders" notes claim that Charles gave it to MacPherson after Culloden and not that it was recovered from Culloden field.

In this case I'd probably believe the Cluny/MacPherson historian as the family was closer to events,
it would also make sense with the info about another identical piece that had been destroyed in the fire at Warwick Castle. (why would there be a 2nd identical one if this were Charles' personal targe?)

Also, the skeptic in me is more inclined to believe a story that says something WASN'T a famous person's SPECIFIC piece, but might have been one of several given out in recognition of loyalty/service.

ith:

[kiltedrennie]

A reproduction of this would look awesome on my wall. Thanks for the interesting photographs and discussion!

[Geoff Withnell]

It would not be a bit surprising for Charles to have multiple targes along for a battle. Unlike swords, targes and other types of shields typically do not survive very long in a battle. It is quite possible to run through several in the course of an afternoon. Which gives more credence to the silver being added later.

Which would follow along similar lines to the information laid out in "The Highlanders of Scotland", although the "Highlanders" notes claim that Charles gave it to MacPherson after Culloden and not that it was recovered from Culloden field.

In this case I'd probably believe the Cluny/MacPherson historian as the family was closer to events,
it would also make sense with the info about another identical piece that had been destroyed in the fire at Warwick Castle. (why would there be a 2nd identical one if this were Charles' personal targe?)

Also, the skeptic in me is more inclined to believe a story that says something WASN'T a famous person's SPECIFIC piece, but might have been one of several given out in recognition of loyalty/service.

ith:

[TheOfficialBren]

It would not be a bit surprising for Charles to have multiple targes along for a battle. Unlike swords, targes and other types of shields typically do not survive very long in a battle. It is quite possible to run through several in the course of an afternoon. Which gives more credence to the silver being added later.

Geoff brings up a very valid point.

From an archaeological perspective when recovering artifacts of a martial nature even swords are often badly corroded and disintigrated. I honestly cannot think of a genuinely Medieval shield (for example) surviving long enough to make it into a museum because a) its function & b) its composition (usually wood and leather with some small metal bits). The closest thing that I can think of might be some Tudor era tilting (jousting) shields (or, more likely, Victorian era reproductions) but those were never instruments of war. They were always sporting equipment so they faired a bit better than anything that saw action on the battlefield.

This piece may be genuine but, to be completely objective, might it be another Victorian-era reproduction? Those Victorians were impossibly romantic and never let the truth get in the way of a good story.

[ThistleDown]

It would not be a bit surprising for Charles to have multiple targes along for a battle. Unlike swords, targes and other types of shields typically do not survive very long in a battle. It is quite possible to run through several in the course of an afternoon. Which gives more credence to the silver being added later.

Actually, Geoff, Charles was never permitted to fight or even be close to the fighting in the few battles at which he was present. It is highly unlikely that he carried a shield in any form either before or after Culloden. It's important to keep in mind that the targe is a foot-soldiers' defense against, in the main, thrusting and slashing weapons. Charles was mounted and at this stage in his career was most likely dressed in the French fashion, as were all of his 'officers'.

The other thing to consider here is the National Museum's statement that Ewan of Cluny retrieved the targe from the Culloden battlefield. Cluny and his Macphersons were in Badenoch on the day of the battle and not at Culloden.

[creagdhubh]

The other thing to consider here is the National Museum's statement that Ewan of Cluny retrieved the targe from the Culloden battlefield. Cluny and his Macphersons were in Badenoch on the day of the battle and not at Culloden.

Precisely, Rex. Cluny and his Macphersons were indeed further south in Badenoch, participating in a bit of a skirmish there whilst en route to Culloden, but unfortunately, they arrived much too late. Dr. Alan G. Macpherson of St. John's, Newfoundland, describes this account in great detail in his book, "A Day's March to Ruin."

[creagdhubh]

The targe was rescued from Culloden battlefield in 1746 by Jacobite colonel Ewan MacPherson of Cluny and remained in his family until the 20th century."

This is simply not true, rather a highly romanticised version of the story. Please review my post above.